TELESEMINAR SERIES FOR COUPLES AND PARENTS OF YOUNG CHILDREN AND TEENS
TELESEMINARS FOR ESTRANGED PARENTS
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3:37 pm
Nick O said:
If they have no respect none need be given to them..
2:27 pm
Debbie H said:
Dear lady, your post is old, hope you come back and get this. I had three children who dumped me, one with my only two grandkids. I am in agony, too. I have no answers but, you are not alone. This seems so unreal. I wish you some sort of peace and strength to make it through this darkness. If I knew you I would come and visit and be a friend. If I would, then there is someone else who would as well. Find them and I hope you get help or already have dear.
1:51 pm
I was impressed by two posts here especially, although I feel for all. Maxine describes how I feel, too. IAM was eloquent. Incredibly eloquent.
I am in my 60's and was as was called back in 1966, an unwed mom. I kept my daughter after being tossed out of my family and the "love" I thought I had found from my baby's father. We were 17, too young, but I could not let the baby go, I had to take care of her, so I chose that path, with no help.
She was born in 1966 and dumped me from her more exciting life when her dad (we got married and stayed married) and I stopped paying her bills. That was in 1995. My youngest daughter discovered she had an interest in a lesbian relationship and her spouse divorced her, and without an explanation, she dumped me in 2004. I have been in agony.
It seems no one understands how they were a bad parent here. Before I explain about my middle daughter I should give up an excellent reason why my daughters would dump me.
In 1987 my middle daughter came home from a disastrous several months at a college we could not afford to pay for. She refused to go instate and live close to home. She seemed so lost. One day, after my husband had retired and was at school himself working on a grad degree for employment purposes, she told me that he had sexually abused her from age 7 to 11. I held it together enough to send her to a friend's house with directions to call me before she headed back. I drove to a psychologist's office to ask for help. I asked him if I should leave my husband. The statutes prevented him being prosecuted.
This, coincidetally, was the same psychologist who had already talked to this daughter about the abuse although I was not to find that out for a year or so. He asked me, in reply to my question, if with this bad thing had there also been good things in our family. There definitely had been. I chose to try to heal my family by us staying together. I went home, confronted my husband and as tears streamed down his face he owned up immediately.
Frankly, I beat on him unmercifully for years over this, so if anyone wants to say he did not receive punishment, he really did. We lived in a small mean town, he received it from them, an employer, his family, mine and so on.
My daughter married a year later. My husband was not invited. She married a person I did not like when I met him but I did not tell her. The ceremony was held at his parent's hometown. His parents gave me the cold shoulder. I held my head up, kept my mouth shut and made a good showing for my daughter's sake.
We live next door to this daughter now. She has my 13 and 16 year old grandkids, my only grandkids. I adore them. My husband have spent every available penny on them and contributed in other ways, expensive time-consuming ways. The son-in-law was diagnosed as a sex addict in 1997 when my grandson was several months old. I found out this time, my daughter found out about a previous cheating and had forgiven him. There had been others. He refused couseling. We tried to be there for them. My son-in-law's father said that my daughter probably cheated too since my grandson did not resemble his father. (He resembled me!)
Btw, both of my other daughters were married to guys I thought were wonderful.
After a year of taking my middle daughter to doc and pt and medical test appoint ments after a car accident she suffered viral encephalitis and a brain stem tumor on Dec 15, 2011. While still fresh from the stroke my son-in-law said that I overreacted and was panicky calling the EMT to get her to the ER. She was diagnosed with a stroke upon arrival! He said that even so!
As she laid in the hospital she told me that over the 23 years of her marriage she had not been kind and loving enough to her husband and his parents and she was sorry. These parents had put her down many, many times, her son and daughter as well. They were jealous of the years of close relationship my daughter and grandkids had enjoyed with my husband and me. My husband and I found ourselves dumped from the daughter's family we had been living next door to. My grandson was screamed at and threatened on Xmas night, while his mom was in the hospital, by his dad. The reason was that my grandson dislikes his dad's parents and had not talked to them in over two years. His father was forcing him to now go up the street where they were visiting at my son-in-law's brother's home (yes, another relative moved into the neighborhood!) and my grandson also had not had a relationship with that relative after being called a Nazi. My son-in-law got in his car and drove it 80 mph up the street scaring my grandson, who came to us for help. My granddaughter has sided with her father, another interesting and painful story there.
So, I live next door to my grandkids who I cannot talk to. I live next door to my daughter recovering from a stroke. I live in the same neighborhood with my son-in-law's other relatives who are relishing my pain. I have no one to intercede. My house is "under water", and we spent our savings on the folks next door. I am so depressed I cannot function properly.
I have written all of this and, oh there was so much more I left out. My oldest daughter tried to put me in jail for emailing her. My youngest reads but does not reply to my emails. Was I a bad mother? Don't I HAVE to be to lose all three and two grandkids? My mother was depressed, did not have the energy to protect me, but I kept trying with her. My birth father abandoned us ( yes I know I have abandonment issues), I believe I failed to let my daughters make mistakes as they grew. I obviously failed to detect my husband abusing my daughter. Her older and younger sisters did as well. He was very careful. I love too much. I am not religious, but have no contempt for those who are, as I was a cheerful catholic until age 21 when my grandmother died and the belief drained out of me and never returned. I was intelligent, my kids got musical training, encouragement to go to college and all three received military academy scholarships, although two turned them down. All three daughters have college degrees, work and earn good wages.
What am I supposed to do with this hideous grief and all these questions. Don't hesitate, tell me what you think. I need to move forward. Also, my husband is stronger than me. He has been a devoted grandfather, father-in-law, and dad except for that one very big wrong.
1:43 pm
Brenda,
No, we should not feel guilty and keep giving and giving to our adult children. It's time for them to grow up and stand on their own two feet. So many of today's generation feel entitled to everything. In general, our generation worked for what we have and, since we worked for it, we appreciate it a lot more and don't take it for granted. If our adult kids want to treat us disrespectfully, we need to stand firm and not tolerate it. The more disrespect we put up with from others, the more they will dish out – this applies to our adult children also.
11:15 am
What I don't understand is the boundaries discussion.
As a mother I feel I have given freely, but my daughter tells me that I don't respect her boundaries but she is always asking me to pay her bills … finally I said, I can't afford it … she is angry that I don't respect her boundaries what about my boundaries … in this age of entitlement … do we just have to keep giving?
7:58 am
I'd be interested in continuing the conversation! Not because I think you can solve my problems or I can solve yours, but just to have another perception on this. When I read your reply (and thank you for taking the time to put it all out there) I questioned myself as to what MY daughter would write if she was asked to. I know I don't qualify as a bully. In fact I was bullied by her when she was a teen. She was taller than me and she would literally back me up against the wall (in my own room) and refuse to move or leave my room. I was never scared she would get physical but there was always a power thing going on. Common in adolescence, but for some reason I could never get a handle on it like I did with my older kids. The other kids (who are close with me) say that Lily was "raised differently" and that she was not disciplined, she was "the baby" and spoiled too much. I personally don't see that I raised her any different, but they probably are in a better spot than me to notice.
At any rate….your initial post struck a chord with me because Lily frequently will smile at me and say "you just don't get it, do you?". If feels like a game of sorts with her.
I did see a counselor once for myself. Honestly I couldn't afford it but I couldn't not afford it. She told me that I need to keep telling Lily I love her but let her go. She felt that eventually there would be a reconciliation when she got older and more mature. I wish I had the same confidence. Her heart just seems like it is made of stone when she is with me.
Anyway…thanks again
12:50 pm
Although I’m estranged from my parents, I think my situation is very different from yours. I am not the only person that is estranged from my Mother. My brother (12 years), my uncle at various times and a long string of random friends are also estranged. My Mom forced my Dad to cut off ties with his birth family back in the 70’s because she had a verbal fight with his sister. The twisted logic is that if Dad didn’t cut off contact with his sister that he would be demonstrating he supports her position in that argument with my Mom. By extension, since his family didn’t publically defend Mom to his sister, then they obviously agree with what his sister said so the only way to demonstrate his loyalty as a good husband was for Dad to cut off contact with everybody in his family. It’s twisted logic born out of a fragile ego but Dad fed it and cut off contact.
I would not be estranged from my Father now except that I he is not allowed to have a relationship with me without me having a relationship with Mom. Dad never picked up the phone without Mom in earshot or a pen without her editing or approving the letter. My father having a relationship with his daughter would be a betrayal of my Mother and NOBODY betrays my mother without paying the price of her anger. To be estranged from Mom is to be estranged from Dad.
My parents have never been physically or sexually abusive. What I experienced was emotional and primarily from my Mother. My father is a quiet passive man that lets her make all of the decisions for him. My Mom is a bully and I think that my Dad plays the martyr.
Shortly before I became estranged from my parents, I had been seeing a counselor to try to figure out how to deal with the boundary issues between my mother and me. During our conversations, my counselor indicated that she thought my mother was NPD or BPD (narcissistic or borderline personality disorder). After I left my ex, my mother called my counselor and was so abusive to her that the counselor had to hang up on her. When my counselor recounted the story in our next story, she was obviously shaken by the encounter and said that my mother knew exactly which buttons to press and where to stick the knife to inflict the most damage. Then she hugged me and said “I’m sorry”.
My older brother had seen a counselor a few years before that and she also diagnosed my mother as NPD or BPD. My brother has since completed his Masters in Clinical Psychology and agrees that either diagnosis is probably correct.
It’s my understanding that people with NPD/BPD have a total inability to respect boundaries and usually have a trail of fractured relationships in their past. NPD/BPD people view people as possessions. Children are there to serve their needs. Behavior outside of the expected is punished by removal of approval or approval. Unconditional love is not something that my Mother is capable of.
NPD/BPD people usually do not understand why people leave or they just preemptively jettison those that get too close with a mirror. If they do go to counseling, it’s because they want to find a way out of the pain they feel. However, they rarely progress very far because as soon as the counselor suggests they have a problem that needs to be addressed, they dismiss the counselor as a hack and leave. NPD/BPD people are looking for validation for their anger, not a mirror to see the problem.
My Dad contacted me by phone about 3 weeks ago wanting to start a conversation. He apologized for not protecting me as a kid. He said he wished he had been a better father and asked my forgiveness and told me he loved me. That blew me out of the water. Apologies don’t change the past but it was nice to finally have him validate that our childhood was less than stellar.
In order to call, he had to sneak out of the house. He has to hide the fact that he talked to me. I don’t care if he tells her that we are talking. I just don’t want to talk to her. He said he doesn’t want to have that ‘fight’ with her right now and I get it because he’ll live in hell if she does find out. I figure he must be dealing with some things inside to be willing to risk the kind of battle he’ll face if she finds out. Maybe he’s just getting old and looking back realizing that there are some things he might do differently.
His recent call and his indication that he’d like to continue talking has me thinking a lot about my parents lately. I don’t want my Mother back in my life. Stories from those that she still has contact with prove that nothing has changed. But I also know my father can’t hide that we’re talking forever. I’d love to have my father in my life but I am scared to have hope because past history speaks volumes. Reading your posts gave me a window into the world from that side so if nothing else it makes me think ‘maybe’ there’s a chance. But he didn’t protect me from her before…why should I expect he would now?
If you get punched every time you walk past a bully’s gate, you eventually stop walking down that street. Now I’m looking at the possibility of having to deal with that bully again. By default, continuing to talk to my father means eventually I’m going to have to try to draw boundaries with a woman that can’t respect boundaries so I wonder if it’s worth it.
So that’s the Readers Digest condensed version of what brought me here. I said in my first post that I’d follow your lead on if I post here or keep looking elsewhere. However, I’m not sure that me continuing to post here is a good idea. Most responses were positive but one not so much. I don’t want to take a safe space from even 1 person since there are other safe spaces out there for me. If you are interested in continuing the conversation, let me know and I’d be happy to do so over e-mail.
8:27 pm
You wish us peace. Those are the exact words my estranged
daughter wrote in her last correspondence with me.
What power those words give you. You have been estranged
from your parents for ten years. Go on with your life! I wish you peace even though I know for sure you will never have that in your lifetime. We are here for a very short time thank God.
3:50 pm
IAM1RU, I too welcome your input. The more information we can receive will help us in understanding our EC who refuse to talk to us and explain what the real problem is. I agree with Lemon Mom wondering what is it that we "just don't get" as those were words my granddaughter emailed me that her mother's therapist said about me. Strange that the therapist could say that without even having me as a client. Your situation may not be exactly like all of ours but if you can shed some light on giving us your input and feelings it may benefit us. How sad that you are suffering and we are suffering and somehow none of us know how to come together. What would it take from your parents to make you feel comfortable having a relationship with them again? For all of you on this site, I wish you peace and make the best Holiday possible. We all deserve it.
6:50 am
IAM, I myself welcome your input because I am hoping you can shed some light on this. Maybe help me understand what it is that "I don't get". I know that my ED thinks I don't get something..but I don't know what it is that I don't get.
Please tell us more.
7:36 pm
IAM1RU,
Appreciated hearing your side. Just curious – what was the breaking point that caused you to not want to associate with your parents? My breaking point was when my adult daughter told me she wanted my money now – her entitlement attitude. She sees nothing wrong with what she did.
Thanks for your input.
6:40 pm
IAM1RU,
Since you found anger reading here, finding things your own parents might have said…do you find similarities between yourself and our children?
3:35 pm
I don't know if it's appropriate for me to post on this site or not. I was searching for information about kids estranged from an NPD parent and saw a site about parents estranged from their kids. Curiosity is what brings me here.
I feel for everyone on this site but I'm the flip side of your coin. I'm the kid that saw no other option but to walk away. I don't think that kids that are estranged come to the decision easily. It's the hardest thing I've ever done and I second guess my decision daily because it's really sad not to share life events with my parents.
It's interesting because reading your posts cause me curiosity, sadness and hints of anger. The anger is because I see hints of the same thing that I might hear my own parents say and I want to point back and say you just don't get it. I'm not here to pick a fight. Not at all. I'm 10 years estranged at this point and all my old anger is just acceptance and sadness now. Sadly, I don't actually know my point in posting other than I'm drawn to. I'm not talking to my own parents. You aren't talking to your kids. We have something in common and that's a sad heart at the loss. I really do wish you all well and hope the best for you.
Also, I want to say that I understand if I'm not welcome to participate on this forum. There are forums out there for me. Trust that I understand everyone needs a safe space so if it's not OK, I won't post again. Since this is your space and I'm really not sure why I posted in the first place, I'll follow your lead on if I'm welcome or not. Either way, I wish you peace.
9:25 pm
My heart breaks for all of you as I read these posts. I understand the hurt and pain that our grown children can cause, and have cried countless tears of sadness. Sometimes I can't help but think "This wasn't supposed to be my life. What happened?" I am retreating from them because they so obviously don't want a close relationship with me. They have rejected the faith we raised them in. Still, they know the door is open. I have turned more to God and to strengthening my relationship with Him, and I am concentrating on my marriage and my life as well. I hope someday they will be a part of our lives again, but until then I am really trying to get on with my life and progress and grow. My wish for all of you this holiday season is LOVE, PEACE and JOY. You are not alone!
8:07 am
valerie said:
If I may suggest turn the tables on them, do without them, give them what they want. We can focus our attention taking care of ourselves and deal with people that appreciate us; let them go and abuse others if that is what they choose as their purpose in life.
7:13 pm
Maxine,
You didn't go into a lot of info. re. your past, but I'm so sorry to hear you have few friends and low self esteem. Does your low self esteem stem from something in your childhood? It sounds like you may be unemployed. I am also, so I decided to volunteer at a local hospital one day a week, which helped me tremendously. I made several friendships, and helping others lifts my spirits. It also keeps my mind off my problems. I would highly recommend it to others.
Maxine said:
6:31 pm
Elke,
I didn't want to hear this from a good friend, but she told me to stop all contact with my ED – she was driving me crazy and got me more and more worked up, every time we were in touch. It's hard to accept, but it was good advice. I blocked my ED's e-mail address, and I'm doing better each and every day. Some relationships just can't be saved, nor are they worth saving, when it means we must tolerate verbal and/or emotional abuse – and that includes family members. From reading your e-mails, I truly believe you would benefit from cutting all contact and moving on with your life. There is so much to live for, when we think positive and care less what happens to those who want no part of us.
11:04 am
Thank you catmom, I am depressed and have begun taking an anti-depressive today.
I see positive things, but he doesnt. He only just told me we never have a positive day together. We do, but if there is one negative, this he will pick out and disregard the rest.
The specifics are on my post of today in my other topic.
I didnt want to hijack this post, its not about me. I am sorry.
1:04 pm
Hi Debbie:
I am so sorry to hear of your situation and the pain you are going through. I can relate to several things you say especially not being invited to the wedding. It almost seem as if this generation is under some dark evil spell. I think it would take divine intervention to change this parent dumping generation. In the meantime, I feel all we can do is take good care of ourselves and try to live the best life possible because we all deserve to. I wish I could tell you how to stop grieving, but all I can really do is make a few suggestions and pray that things change soon. It is out of our hands.
8:50 am
I too, grieve for my son. He is 19, thinks he is grown, and has moved 3 hours away where he lives with a cousin and her "fiancee". He works about 20 hrs a week for minimum wage, no desire to go to college or get job training, no ambition at this point. He has rejected the faith we brought him up in, and has started smoking, drinking, etc., that he never saw in our home while he was growing up. He says he will never move back to our area, and has no car, so I have to travel 3 hours in order to see him. It is very hard for me to hear him say that the way he lives his life is none of my business, yet he expects me to help him when he can't cover all his monthly expenses. I have cut way back on the financial help I give him, because I found out he was spending it on marijuana and other foolish things, not groceries or necessities. I have cried until I have no more tears to cry. I have offered to help him if he would move closer to home where rent, food, etc., is less expensive, but he won't even consider it. Before he graduated from high school, he and I were very close, but now, it's like I barely know who he is. I understand what all of you are feeling and really don't know the answer. I do know that I have accepted the fact that right now, he wants to be on his own. He may have to end up in the pigsty, like the prodigal son in the Bible, before he realizes that he needs to make major life changes. I have told him that if he ever decides he wants to change his living arrangements and seek job training, I am here to help him. Now, I make a conscious effort everyday to put him in God's hands, and go about my life. I attend a church where there is a group of single, middle-aged women like me. I socialize with them and share my burdens with them. I also would recommend any mother who is estranged from her children to seek out a counselor, or a minister or priest, anyone who would listen and be able to advise, or just be a shoulder to lean on. Don't try to do this on your own. Maybe volunteering at a nursing home, homeless shelter, hospital, etc., would help you focus on the needs of others, and not focus on the pain you are feeling quite so much. Please keep posting here also. (((Hugs)))
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