TELESEMINAR SERIES FOR COUPLES AND PARENTS OF YOUNG CHILDREN AND TEENS
TELESEMINARS FOR ESTRANGED PARENTS
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10:20 am
My significant other and I spent Christmas day with my best friend and her husband (who never had children), her 94 yr. old mother, and her adult brother and his significant other. We talked about our adult children – wondering what has changed re. today's generation. None of us had our EC to share Christmas with. Her brother hasn't seen his two EC in over 25 years. His significant other hasn't seen her two EC in over 20 years, I haven't seen my ED in over a year, and my significant other only sees his daughter a few times a year, but she doesn't spend holidays with him. Something is definitely not right. All of us have been thru a divorce, so I'm sure that plays a part in the problem, but we don't deserve the lack of love and respect from our EC. So when we think we are the only ones with this problem – we need to realize that there are many other parents out there who are also going thru the same heartache. It helps to know we are not the only ones. Needless to say, we're all glad Christmas is over. The day went well for all of us, but it would have been extra special if we had spent it with our adult children, who realized and appreciated all we did for them over their lifetime.
10:03 am
Thank you, rj, for your encouraging words. I know that I am a good and loving person and have to remind myself of that when I start letting them take that away from me. We cannot let them have power over us. It is so unfortunate but it seems that most of our estranged children became that way after they met someone or married which according to Dr. Coleman is very common. They are swayed by them and are not strong enough to stand up for themselves. We were all supportive and loving of each other in our family until then and spent so much time together. My daughters use to call me everyday on their way home from work. I am thankful that I have so many other family and friends that are so supportive which is who I spend time with rather than trying to reach out to those who continue to hurt. I was thinking about what you said rj about children who keep loyal to parents who have been abusive but for us who went to the ends of the earth for our children, it is so easy for them to dismiss us from their lives when they no longer need us. Could it be that the children of abusive parents are continually trying to have their parents show them love while our children know that we will love them no matter what they do. I have told my children that I will always love them and be here for them when they are ready, although they know that I will no longer accept their disrespect and verbal abuse. I wonder how they would handle it if we gave them some of their own medicine? Sometimes I think our EC have gotten themselves in so deep that they do not know how to get out so they just put it out of their mind and go on their merry way not caring in the least how we are feeling. It is so sad because for me a simple "I'm sorry Mom that I hurt you" would suffice for me. Are they so above that? Meanwhile, I am working at keeping my mind positive and being around positive people. I am going back to accepting the estrangements and "letting go" since their issues are out of my control. And when the next holiday comes up, I will have to work at just treating it like another day. Pretty soon I will change my name to "strongagain." A Happy and Peaceful New Year to all of you.
5:58 am
I am happy that it is over too, as my grieving started in late September, when my 31yo son decided to send some hateful emails, and block my email address, refuse contact. This is in response to a relationship choice that I made.
Now his sister has joined him in not responding to my call to drop off my grandson's Xmas gifts. I did not hear from the two of them on Christmas. My youngest daughter is still keeping contact, thank goodness. I have been overcome with grief, even thought of suicide. This was the first Christmas Eve that I was not with any of my children, since they were born. (my youngest agreed to make an alternate plan, so that my husband and I could see our grandsons last Friday and, and give them their gifts. She too, will not come to my home, or bring the boys over – they are four and five, and love to come to my home.) I have been so depressed, it is affecting my performance at work, and I keep getting sick, probably due in part to the stress.
Any advice would be welcome.
5:57 am
notsostrong said:
notsostrong,
If we allow anyone to define who we are, then all is lost. If you think you are a good person, then you are. If you enjoy your own company and affect other people's lives in a positive way you deserve love and respect in your life. I am sure you have gone above and beyond for your daughter. I also believe that even though we say we are done with them and are moving on, there is still that littlest glimmer of hope that the phone will ring, at least I know that to be true of myself. Keep on being good to yourself and stay busy. I think our unique problem is a riddle greater than the Sphinx. Why can some children of abusive, undeserving parents continue to be loyal to and loving to them, and why can some children of devoted and loving parents turn away from us and estrange themselves?
5:46 am
Nettie, I am touched that you would pray on my behalf. I don't think anyone has ever said that before. I will think of you as my little sister from across the pond who now has a grandbaby. I am so happy for you that things have gotten better. To the outside world, I look totally normal. I have family and friends, a great husband, an adoring younger son and a home, car and job. In this economy, I'd say that's a good life. I do have many blessings in my life, but only those who are experiencing being deprived of a relationship with their children can understand that it's always with us. Every day it's a giant gloom that tries to wrap itself around me and it's called estrangement. I think that fighting it causes some of the exhaustion and frustration, but I will wake up every morning with my boxing gloves on. Thank you for your words of encouragement. Happy New Year to all of you.
5:56 pm
I am so happy this day is finally over. I thought I had it all under control planning a busy day so I would not miss my EDs . Saw a great movie, War Horse, which I would highly recommend. Amazing, wonderful story. Talked to some of my family from across the states, listened to my favorite music and had a great dinner. But underneath all of this planning, I am hurting because I had a glimmer of hope that my one daughter would call or text. Did not think she would let two Christmases go by without having some contact. It has been a little over a year with her and as much as I have accepted to let her go and deal with her issues I had in my heart hoped to have her contact me at Christmas. This is a daughter that I was at her "beck and call" to help her at any moment for 42 years. And now after all these years she doesn't need me anymore so just puts me out of her life. Sometimes I wonder why I want her back in my life when she has hurt me so badly with verbal abuse and disrespect. Is it because then I will not think I am a failure? Then I realize I can not let her define who I am and decide whether or not I am a good person. At this point I do not even know if I could trust her if she does return. How do you deal with all these conflicting feelings? I am hoping for a better day tomorrow. Holidays s__k!
2:13 pm
to RJ
That must have made you feel so good. It will come from your son one day at the moment he is fighting his love for you for whatever crazy reason he has talked himself into. It will be too hard for him to admit he is wrong now.My daughter has admitted a lot of things that i think probably most of these EC out there are doing to the mums on this forum. I will elaborate more but now I have to sleep as I am working boxing day
goodnight RJ I pray for your son often to come to his senses and return his mums love
8:11 am
Thanks, Nettie. I wish you and your daughter and new grandchild all the best for the New Year. To all of you who have an estranged child, I wish you health, peace and acceptance. I hope your lives are filled up with love. Last night, when I was watching movies with my husband wishing that things could be different with my ES, I received a text from a girl I mentored in high school. She wished me a happy holiday and ended it with, "I love you."
5:31 pm
Hi RJ, Momb andMandy
not posted for a while as life has been quite hectic wanted to wish you all and allrhe people on this forum a peaceful christmas one filled with miracles and a safe and happy new Year
I would like to say to Jules I know how you are feeling my ED never let me near her or go to the scans etc or when she was pregnant she reconciled 4 days before giving birth(after 18 months of estrangement) every girl/woman needs their mum. My daughter confessed that even if she hadnt reconciled she would have still rung me when she went into labour You may well get your miracle when she becomes a mother herself and finds out how hard it is but how much love she will have for that child and then she will know what she putting you through. on xmas eve last y ear my daughter was calling me F…….g freak for going to midnight service this year she rang me and when i told her i was going she just said Oh ok i jokingly said thats a better answer than i had last year i could hear her cringing on the phone today her and my grandaughter are coming for lunch and staying for a couple of hours so miracles do happen to all you parents on this forum dont give up hope. RJ i just know you will get the miracle you want soon
will continue to dip in and out as this forum particularly a few got me through the worst 18 months of my life so far
9:17 am
I thank God for leading me to this forum. I have lived in pain, guilt & misery for 20 years now because of my ED who blames me for all that is wrong in her life. Christmas is always a downer because I miss sharing it with her, but I put on a good front cause I have another daughter who is simply the best. I always felt that something must be terribly wrong with me to have a daughter who feels like I don't love her. I am so sorry to find out that so many others have this problem but at the same time so glad to know that I am not alone. I wish for all grieving parents a blessed Christmas and Peace.
3:26 pm
hi everyone,
somehow this is the topic i need most to post on because "christmas without children" is still continuing for me. it started at thanksgiving and when will it be over?
when i was taking care of my grandchildren, usually most days of the week, every day of the year was "christmas with children."
so i have been saddened so often during this season, even as i smile at the adorable little ones i see in supermarkets, stores, and out walking.
it has been a remarkably pleasant holiday season so far and i expect new year's eve will be fine too. my boyfriend is working that night and i am spending it with my best friend and her husband. sleeping over at their house so i can avoid driving. we'll probably watch t.v. or read.
but basically my mood over this holiday has been damped down and sad.
i send support and well wishes to everyone on this website and admiration too. the longer i am estranged, the more people i meet who have some sort of estrangement in their families.
those on this website do not accept it lying down. congratulations to us!
6:14 am
Joan you are soooo not alone. One way or another one of us here will know EXACTLY every emotion you mention and every situation you are up against. This is such a lovely forum with so much kindness, support and friendship.
This was the first year I did not send my son a Christmas text. I have not seen him for over 4 years, and even though I have written my letter of apology and in previous years done all I can to attempt to make it right, this year I actually thought "enough". He has never responded to anything so this year I just made it easy for him. And you know what? In a way it made me feel free. Free from decision making and free from the inevitable sadness that comes from the deafening silence of rejection.
Sometimes there is no understanding of how we came to be in these situations. So the best we can do is accept.
I've grieved, I've raged and I've been broken hearted and now, having read Dr C's book and written my final letter of apology I am at peace. It's a pretty good place to be, but the journey has been a mighty treacherous one. Still this particular precipice seems solid-ish for now :-)
I'm hoping for strength for all of us as we enter a new year and a new chapter.
Take care,
Lexy
7:20 pm
I am so thankful to have found this website this Christmas! I cannot tell you all how often in the middle of the night I would get up because I couldn't fall asleep and I would look online for information or anything regarding relationships with children.
I have been dealing with issues with my son for about 7 years, an on again, off again relationship. He is now 26 and I thought with age things would get better. In my case they are worse and this was the first Christmas I did not purchase him gifts. I did send him a message but received no response. I empathize with all your stories and see some similarities in my own.
I have gone through the 5 stages of grief and am now in the acceptance stage. I can no longer be hurt by him so he will have to decide if he wants a relationship with us. My husband and his sister seem to handle this all better than I do.
I have beat myself up trying to understand it all. We were such a loving family until a girl entered his life after high school and we were no longer important to him. I know we all have our stories, I love hearing all of yours…I finally feel I am not alone.
3:34 pm
You guys are the best.
Gonna sit on the letter until I feel better about sending it.
Thanks!
10:52 am
hi jules,
an alternate point of view: what i saw in your post was all those question marks at the end. so perhaps it might help to wait to send the letter until at least some of those questions marks are gone from your mind.
it occurs to me that the birth of a new baby (your son's baby) classifies as a "crisis point." a crisis is a place of both danger and opportunity, according to a Chinese saying. i think a birth is more opportunity than crisis and that most people are at their best as a new family member arrives.
so i'd say to let the letter sit for awhile. if you'll soon be seeing your daughter, and seeing her as she is getting more and more pregnant, maybe there'll be an easing up.
on the other hand, there are pros and cons to either alternative: sending or not sending the letter. that, i think, is a good thing to remember.
i am myself sitting on a letter of apology to my SIL. i'm just waiting to when i am more sure about sending it. that might be today, tomorrow, next month, or never. not that i'll ever be completely sure.
it does sound like the process of reconciliation has already started for you. after all, you are only semi-estranged.
those who have not been invited to the "eggshell dance" truly long for an invitation. is there any way for you to enjoy that dance now that you are one of the lucky ones who have been invited? i mean, put on your strapless formal, string of pearls, high heels and corsage, and sashay on in, in time with the music?
with a lot of love and many wishes for you,
grieving mom
5:17 am
I read something last night that made me think of all of us. It was kinda saying that if we go along with others because we fear the alternative then we are guilty of untruths and subterfuge.
When we are trying to put right the wrongs in our families we so try to be everything to all, even when it means that we are trying to fit emotional square pegs into round holes.
Jules I so feel for you. It sounds like the letter you have written is a fair one. It makes me think of that song " You've got a friend…" You are letting her know you are there for her, but she has to call out to you, to guide you, to pave the route of her choosing. Gawd, it shouldn't have to be like this, it shouldn't be so complex – here is where the madness lay isn't it. Listen Jules you know you are there for her, and in her heart she knows it too. Unfortunately many of our children, given the chance will use whatever rod they can find to beat us – blame us, and they don't have to blame themselves….
Continue to thrash it out on here if you need to.
Lexy
xx
5:20 pm
Jules,
That's such a tough spot to be in. No matter what you do, you can't get it right. Just think about the delicious grandchild you will be holding soon. (I'm jealous, I have a granddoggy!) Take each day as it comes. Trying to out think your daughter hasn't worked yet. Expect nothing but be worthy of everything. Fill yourself up with things that have nothing to do with your children. Be the soft place to fall for the people around you that need one. One day, one at a time.
3:34 pm
Sharon,
I agree with Lexy about the letter. What you are doing is for you & again, she does not have to put her stamp of approval on it. I also think that she might take your claim as a challenge within herself to prove that she can outwait you & you will crumble if she holds her ground.
I am struggling with the same thoughts & questions about a letter. My daughter & I have had semi contact over the last year with much eggshell dancing. I am berated for not being there (because she would NOT ALLOW ME TO BE THERE) & berated when I make every effort to be there. Since our semi reconciliation, I have bought dinners, gifts, offered to help with laundry, dinner, her job, my grandson & tried to set up things for us to do together. Still I am excluded, ignored, deliberately hurt, accused of making no effort & berated if the mood strikes her.
I am tired of it & am stepping away from the abuse. I have written my daughter a letter (similar to what Dr. Coleman suggests) that I was planning on giving her before New Years. It gives her an apology, tells her that the doors & windows are always open and that I am now going to respect her wishes & only contact her to see my grandson. The letter tells how I would like to do specific things but am respecting her adult choice for me not to. That I will gladly accept any efforts on her part, but will not intrude unless invited.
I will be seeing my ED much more with the birth of my son's child in the next couple of weeks & my ED is expecting a baby in the spring. I want her to know that the ball is in her court, so when I do not attempt to talk to her (set myself up) or attend the birth of her baby which I will hear about thru the grapevine (& not be allowed to see them when I get there) it will be because I am respecting her wishes.
When I found out that she was expecting the first time (from a stranger) I called, begged, sent e-mails, cards, called my ex asking for help & EVERYTHING else to get to her, yet was denied at every attempt. Later I was told I was not there for her pregnancy when she need me most. Knowing the outcome, I cannot do it again even tho it breaks my heart. But it is not my choice.
I am worried that I will not be able to follow thru, but I do not want her to claim that me not being there is my choice. I do not mention her actions as abuse, just as her right to include whoever in her life & my understanding that I should respect that right.
But now I am thinking that maybe I should just let her figure it out on her own. ??????
12:56 pm
Sharon,
I, wholeheartedly, hear what you are saying. To me, I've been given a life sentence in solitary confinement for being accused of stealing a candy bar. He's just not ready to have a relationship and that's it. I have often thought of sending my ES all of his things, especially the videos that spell out the true history and all the love that was there. I have baby shoes and first toys, too. What purpose would that serve. Then they would say we were the ones who abandoned the relationship. Even though I am determined to welcome in the New Year with a different perspective, I will always secretly pray that he has a miraculous change of heart and wants to seek me out. I don't want the relationship if he is nice one phone call and nasty and condescending the next. My self-esteem has taken as much beating as it can. You were all my life support through the worst of it.
12:54 pm
What an empowering thread this is. What fantastic people you all are.
Jane I hope you had a Christmas surrounded by people who you like and enjoy and who like and enjoy you. That those people may not be our children is sad, but not the end of the world. You sound like a strong woman who has travelled an intricate and heartbreaking journey but has now found a place to rest that is peaceful and enriching. I applaud you :-)
Grieving mum you are quite simply a shining star amongst the sh*t :-) and I am wondering whether this coming new year will see you with a new nic-name here….maybe.
Rj for years my son has made sure that he has responded to everyone's messages on Xmas Day apart from mine. So this year, for the first time ever I just didn't send him one! Hurt avoided. I am so glad that you felt all that love that is in the world directed particularly at YOU. Our estranged children have made their own decisions right? We also can make ours too. Half full or half empty? Life is way to precious to waste it drowning in our own tears.
Jules no tears is a massive step forward. Even if you were sad inside, to deal with any sadness in a stronger more controlled way shows healing. I have always felt that of course re-connection would be the ultimate, but to be honest we are not in control of that, so failing re-connection, Peace has to be the way for us to move on in our lives. If ever our children follow, we will always leave a light on.
And Sharon, I pondered on your question for a while. Mainly because I am a really "gobby" person who always likes to make a point and over the years I have had to work really hard to work out which points really need to be made. If this is about YOUR self respect then the only person who really needs to know about it is YOU. Personally I do not think that you would gain anything by writing a letter to your daughter like that. Others may feel differently but I think it could be seen as antagonistic and also let's face it our estranged children will ALWAYS misunderstand anything we try to say to them anyway, so something that important and that personal is bound to be misconstrued. But of course that is just my opinion.
So everyone, what a lot of miracles seem to be occuring. Maybe it had something to do with the fairy dust I blew across that freezing Atlantic Ocean towards you all….
I wish each and every one of you strength, peace and love.
xxx
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