Please consider registering

Log In Members

Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —


— Match —


— Forum Options —


Minimum search word length is 4 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

Topic RSS
We were not invited to our son's wedding this past Saturday.
October 21, 2014
4:11 pm

LH said

anonymous said
I hope you are perfect in all aspects of you life both personal and professional which we all know none of us is perfect at all times. 

Why does someone have to be perfect in order to have valid issues with someone else?

While I can not speak for anonymous, what I took from her post was "People in Glass Houses Shouldn't Throw Stones."  I believe that if we all can take a good look at ourselves and where we have made mistakes and forgives ourselves, it is easier to accept and be tolerant of the mistakes and frailties of others and forgive them.  Peace to all. 

October 20, 2014
5:55 pm

I thought we were the only ones going thru this. My son is getting married on Nov. 1st. We are not invited. They're are starting their marriage based on a lie. My son has told everyone that we don't accept his fiancé which isn't true. I refuse to be tortured by him any longer. So we have decided to move on with our lives. 

October 20, 2014
9:06 am

anonymous said
I hope you are perfect in all aspects of you life both personal and professional which we all know none of us is perfect at all times. 

Why does someone have to be perfect in order to have valid issues with someone else?

October 19, 2014
6:18 am



You obviously grew up with family issues but just to let you know most humans are just seeking respect and forgiveness which your generations seems to be lacking.  I hope you are perfect in all aspects of you life both personal and professional which we all know none of us is perfect at all times.  Reality tv has destroyed the kind human nature we once experienced with hard core distrust and hatred.

A loving, caring, human, worker, sibling, and parent

Best of Luck

October 15, 2014
10:25 am

Dear Disappointed,


I would be very careful about responding to these types of requests without checking with Dr. Coleman or his staff through this blog first.  Sometimes, people post these types of things and are unscrupulous in their intent.  There have been other similar requests such as this on this blog that were invalid and removed from the site.  The requester uses blogs like this to get to "know" bloggers.  This may be valid but I would certainly check it out with Dr. Coleman first.

October 14, 2014
10:10 pm

Hello there. I would be a great candidate for your show. About 3 years ago , my son fell in love with a girl. At first she was great and then 6 months into my knowing her, she changed into dr. Jekel. I tried to calmly pull my son aside and tell him I needed to have a talk alone with him. He always had to have her around, it's like she never let him come home for a visit without her. Which at first didn't bother me, until I wanted to have a private talk with my son about how his girlfriend was behaving at my house. I don't ask for much, just treat me , my family, dogs and property with respect and I will do the same. However, he would not have me talking to him without her around to hear what I had to say. All I wanted to say was" Could you have a talk with her about bullying the dog, and disrespecting me . I'm his mother for God sakes. I was shocked at how much power she had over him. Long story short, (and believe me there is much more to the story)he got married to her, changed his last name to hers and didn't invite his own parents and siblings to his big wedding. I'm hurt but willing to get over it. However , I don't think things will ever be the same again. She wears the pants , it's obvious. Her parents got to be at the wedding. Not us.

October 1, 2014
9:55 am
Documentary Producer

Hi there, 

I am a Development Producer at Sharp Entertainment, an NYC-based production company contracted to produce programming for major cable networks.

My colleagues and I are currently developing a new series that will feature the struggles of parents who are unwilling or unable to come to terms with the relationships of loved ones. Apart from educating audiences about this delicate matter, we aim to give couples and their families the opportunity to resolve their issues and move in a healthier direction.

It sounds like this is a common theme on this thread and I wanted to reach out in the event that anyone here is interested in taking advantage of this for more details! 

Be well! 

September 26, 2014
10:42 am
Toxic mothers

bumble said
He says he hates me and does not want me there because I have ruined everything in his life.

I was awful person. He lived with me until he was 27 rent free. I paid his cell bill until he was 26 as well as car insurance and Ipass.  I gave him my engagement ring

The moral of the story is just because you are loving and supportive. Just because you help your child start their life by supporting them in college does not mean they will value that.

I don't want to know someone like this and am ashamed that I have given birth to such a troll. I gave them 5000 dollars toward their wedding already and was going to give them $5000 more as a wedding gift and you may think it is petty but I will not give them another dime. 


OP, Sorry about your troubles.

However, I would suggest looking inwards first.  Your son has told you that he hates you and that you ruined his life.  Have you looked at the reason(s) why?

Love should be unconditional, no strings attached.  I don't mean to be mean, but expecting things in return for your efforts in raising your son is not love.  

To be blunt, you sound narcissistic.  I have a narcissistic and *toxic* mother of my own, and this is how my mother would react.  And, if I ever get married (which is doubtful because of my own narcissism), I would not invite my mother.

Look inwards before blaming others.  Take responsibility for your actions.  I wish you the best.        

September 22, 2014
10:34 pm

I never really believed in any of these things but when I was losing Mark, I needed help and somewhere to turn badly. Visit: and i ordered a LOVE SPELL. 2 days later, my phone rang. Mark was his old self again and wanted to come back to me! Not only come back, the spell caster opened him up to how much I loved and needed him. Spell Casting isn't brainwashing, but they opened his eyes to how much we have to share together. I recommend anyone who is in my old situation to try it. It will bring you a wonderful surprises as well as your lover back to you. The way things were meant to be." if you need any help to get your ex lover back or husband, you can contact the spell caster on-- he's very nice and great........... RE_UNITING EX SPELL IS REALLY GOOD,REUNITE YOUR LOVE BACK WHIT THE HELP OF DR.MAGBU

Roda Altina

September 18, 2014
11:52 pm
Sevda Gulea

Am Sevda Gulea i want to thank Dr. ODIAGBE AKHIBE for getting my lover back to me within 48 hours. When my lover left me i was so tired and frustrated till i search the internet for help and i saw so many good talk about Dr. ODIAGBE AKHIBE of ( and i decided to give him a try and i contact him and explain my problems to him and he cast a love spell for me which i use to get my husband back. If you want to get your lover back contact Dr. ODIAGBE AKHIBE via email: ( Dr. ODIAGBE AKHIBE the great man that is able to bring back my lost love.

September 5, 2014
12:58 pm

though I raised my son and his sister on my own with no child support I am not invited to the wedding. He says he hates me and does not want me there because I have ruined everything in his life. I was awful person. He lived with me until he was 27 rent free. I paid his cell bill until he was 26 as well as car insurance and Ipass.  I gave him my engagement ring from his father and they lost it (supposedly) I don't think it was big enough for her. They kept saying that they had mailed my invitation and I kept checking the mail but it never was there. Finally they started telling me that they had put one in the mailbox and I would check and not thinking that anyone could be so cruel he finally admitted that I was not invited. The moral of the story is just because you are loving and supportive. Just because you help your child start their life by supporting them in college does not mean they will value that. I was raised that you treat others how you would like to be treated however I now believe  that this needs to be revised" treat others how they deserve to be treated". Many people on here are looking for resolution and want to reconcile with their offspring. I however do not. I don't want to know someone like this and am ashamed that I have given birth to such a troll. I gave them 5000 dollars toward their wedding already and was going to give them $5000 more as a wedding gift and you may think it is petty but I will not give them another dime. If a wedding is a weapon it is doomed.

July 17, 2014
10:16 am

Jays mom said
My heart goes out to you- Im sharing a smilar experience. Im being blamed for things I havent done or said. Apologized countless times , sent letters, voice mails trying to reconcile. Im learning he is getting married of course Im excluded. Cant see me grandson anymore. I raised him and was extremely close to hime and made many sacrifices -yet I guess none of that counts. HIs Girlfreind who is 17 yrs older is threatend by me. I cry every weekend. He is my only son. What can I do??

So many mothers and fathers share the same or similar stories.  I too was close to my only child (son), raising him alone since he was 14...he is now 42 and has been with his long time partner 10 years.  It seems his partner, who never got along with his mother growing up and in fact, didn't even have a relationship with her has worked his magic in helping to make matters worse for my son and me.  I absolutely believe this.  Our childrens' partners who didn't have healthy relationships with their parents are "relationship killing" for our own relationships with our children.  I do believe it is jealousy among other things.  For decades I have been ridiculed, picked on, condemned and been abused emotionally and verbally by my son...but since he has been with his partner it is only gotten worse.  My son has never respected me and never has had a relationship with his father (by his father's doing because my son is gay).   My therapist feels this has a lot to do with my son's anger and hostility towards me in addition to the fact that being gay runs in my father's side of the family.  I have had people tell me including my son's current partner that they don't feel my son is totally comfortable being gay and I believe, as does my counselor that this also has created anger towards me - who knows for sure.  The verbal abuse is awful and about 6 weeks ago I finally told my son this is "good bye" having had the phone slammed down on me, his lies to make himself look great in the eyes of everyone else.  For those that have known me for decades know that the issues are not my own doing (but I realize there are always two sides) and that no matter what I say, or didn't, did or didn't do, my son always finds ways to be angry at me.  I am in counseling and have also reached out to Dr. Coleman.  I told my son that until he figures out his mental issues and why he is so angry at me, I refuse to talk to him.  It is called self-preservation.  They are getting married in San Francisco if they aren't already.  

I can only advise you to try to move on with your own life, no matter how difficult.  You are here only a short while on this earth and the heartache that grown children create should not define or control us the rest of our own lives - as hard as that is.  Children HATE it when they know their parents, especially mothers have created a life that is happy excluded of them.  When you feel like crying, become empowered instead and keep saying over and over that you will not let your disrespectful child have that much control over your emotions any more.  Call a friend, go for a walk, take up a hobby and DO IT, especially when you feel bad.  It is what works for me, especially the walks as it reduces stress and the hormones that are not good for us (cortisol, etc.) which only create a vicious cycle of more stress and anxiety.  I have good days and bad, but practicing mindfulness and meditation now that reduces the stress and anxiety associated with parent/child estrangement.  Believe it or not, practicing these healthy things ARE WORKING to reduce the mental anguish I am going through and I wish you well and hope that maybe you will try these things too to find some peace and happiness in your life.  I wish this for everyone on this site.    

July 17, 2014
6:55 am

I came to find an answer to the situation of my son's wife to be and all the drama she points towards me.  The same stories I have read here.  The sadness is I've gone through this with one of my other son's wife and she ended up getting divorce from him. My son saw the light of what was being told to him before they married, but it didn't help before hand.  No matter what I was always the bad person, b/c it is my son, and like any mother or parent, they protect their child from the bullies, abusive and people who harm them.  One thing I have learn this time around with my youngest child headed in the same directions, is the woman that is hateful towards their in laws are jealous of the love they gave their child, that they didn't receive as a child from their own parents.  You can never give to them the same kind of love you gave your own child, they only resist and blame you for their lack and take it out on your child.  I found it is best not to even give attention to that person,  treat them like they are just another person in the world that you wouldn't want to deal with.  You child will deal with them, remember they choose them to be their mate, thinking they can out love their pain in life, b/c you gave them so much love.  It is sad but there is nothing we can do to make them feel accepted.  It is their own parents fault and we are not responsible for other people's children and their upbringing.  It is sad to have to let go of my son, but he has to realize this for himself, and if I resist or say anything and I mean anything he comes to her defense, even if I'm trying to speak highly of her.  I think it is a woman game of power and jealousy of the love of another woman even though it is his mother.  What they don't understand is the Love their son gives to the woman they love, came from the love of their mother's and the teaching of their father's in how to treat you wife when you get older.  If I had to do all over again, I would not only teach my son this lesson, but I would also teach my son to treat his parents with respect and make his wife do the same, for the respect that they gave to them while growing up and for teaching him to love his wife so deeply.  I will back away and let him have his new family and her family, I won't go to his house until he invites me, I won't intrude and he will find just what he is missing when he feels that her love isn't the love he has had, not compare our love to her, but her love will run out b/c she can hold the game for life, she will shine and be the person she is, the only thing is I won't be around to be blamed.  She is on her own.  I can still love my child at a distant, and he can always come home.  By backing away quietly, and doing my own life, leaves the door open for him to return anytime, making him not to have to choose between families.  He see it and he choices it.  I only have to accept it. And when it comes to grandchildren, I won't give her the chance to use them against me and hold them back.  It doesn't matter if I have g-children or not.  Not when it is going to hurt them to be used as a weapon to hurt someone or them.  I respect my son and his choice, even though it hurts deeply.  I love him more then my own feelings.  He can be the one who calls, when I call it only causes trouble and upsets me so the best I can do for him is back away.  My wedding present to him. And for the record, I don't want to go to his wedding, b/c I don't want to be the blame for her to use me to say I upset her special day as an excuse.  I will cater the dessert table b/c I'm a pastry chef and then I'll disappear into the back ground and not be around like I would as if I was paid to do the job.  How sad isn't it!!! Why do dil's have to be so cruel when they found the perfect person to love them, don't they know he is the way he is b/c of the family he came from?  Go figure.  Hope this helps

January 16, 2014
9:37 pm

So I've read all your stories, and I'm here to discuss it from the other side.  I am the DIL.  I wonder if this story is as old as having children itself?  I kind of see it as a fault of evolution. A human child can never repay or fulfill the obligation it truly has to its parents.  A third of our lives we are basically needy and helpless.  Children almost require that a parent invest totally and completely in them, squeezing every possible resource from them, and parents mostly give it all in spite of themselves with the greatest love.  Naturally all this intensity would warp the relationship between parent and child ever after when the child is grown.  Nowhere else in nature do you find such an extreme investment in child rearing.  Is this odd situation the childs obligation or fault or responsibility?  Perhaps the only way to make it up is in having their own child, their own life's work.

I am estranged from my own parents because they were immature, drank to excess, and it just wasn't going to get better.  This wasn't the whole story as I loved my parents and my life very deeply and worked very hard to make things better.  I was dutiful, took care of them and advocated for them through 10 years of severe illness, despite being subjected to abuse and suffering emotionally and physically to the point of despair.

Things have gotten better since I set up strong boundaries and stopped enabling them (essentially closed the door on them).  A lot of healing happened - you never really know your own truth while you are still trying to please others as first priority.  Your body won't allow you to feel the tiniest bit of the psychological pain you have endured until your subconscious knows you are safe - fact.  Perhaps that is why many adult children realize their desperate childhood pain only once they are safe in the arms of a new love.

My initial estrangement was a few years ago and I recently gave them the choice to reconnect, provided that they stop being socially isolated and see a therapist etc.  I told them I wish them well regardless if they decide to do this.  I am not hopeful for my outcome, but I do respect that many of you have at least tried to make lifestyle changes for your estranged kids.  

As a grown woman, who has painstakingly grown past some things with my own family, forgive me if I am not very interested in getting attached to DH's family of origin.  I dont feel that this makes me damaged, but historically "average".  I feel as though both of our families are "old news", the source of years of negotiations and toil and struggles, perhaps happiness while thrown together out of obligation, but much of which as young people was beyond our control. 

Also, as a new addition to his large family and also the youngest, I would naturally be placed at the bottom of the "pecking order".  I don't want to be in that place anymore and I don't believe it really fits.

I cannot authentically find it in myself to be someones "daughter" all over again, or put on that childish degree of respect for MIL like in the way that someone looks up to a parent.  I feel pressure to do that for her, and I do give respect and help and am pleasant, but I do not feel like a daughter or child to her.  Perhaps in time and with shared experience more might grow between us.  At most, I wish that she was colourful and artistic and brilliantly independent, passionate about her own life so that we could be equals and friends, rather than the expected relationship of playing tug of war with her son.

I feel very much a strong adult woman, and I feel misunderstood when his mother acts like I am a naive or silly young girl who will learn my role in time.  Just because I dont follow her strong traditions for running a household she thinks I have something to aspire to instead of appreciating me for who I am as a fully formed yet DIFFERENT individual. 

DH's large family have their own minor drama and manipulative ways, not to mention heavy expectations for how often he and I need to spend time with them, and I just don't have the patience to pretend that I want to tow the line and fit in with this expectation.  My Mother certainly did not do that either with her own MIL. It was kind of considered old fashioned even in the 80's. 

At most, I want to have the peace and joy and SPACE away from our pasts to imagine and develop and create our own beautiful lives together.  We are inventing a future, and we have much to give the world.  I would like a modern relationship where I am not ever in a mothering position over my husband, and therefore I do not seek to learn from his mother how best to treat him.

We had a private wedding ceremony, just the two of us.  We are deeply spiritual people and it would have taken away from that to have the distraction of other people around.  We had a dinner to celebrate with and acknowledge everyone afterward.  Also, we do not celebrate holidays.  There is an expectation of seeing family at the holidays, but we believe we can spend quality time with family on other days, and that we should not defy our innate spiritual and moral direction just for the sake of tradition.  

Bottom line, most women have enough to deal with with their own families of origin, and the mother-grown son relationship can appear frightfully codependent and unhealthy through the eyes of a new spouse, considering what we have heard of his family history from him. 

Perhaps all young couples believe they will be the most untraditional and free spirited, and then in time you trade it in for tradition and family responsibility until one day you know what it is to be lonely for your adult child who has gone away. 

Life is imperfect.  One thing I do know is that with my husband and all other people I must let humans be imperfect, and look for my God elsewhere.


January 11, 2014
7:32 am

My husband has a similar situation with his daughter. My husband was divorce for 22 years before we married. His daughter have been not nice to him for long time. She does not show respect to him even before the grandparents. (I have seem how she talk to him)

He bought a pantoon boate for her birthday. She was asking to the bill of sale so she can register the boat, he told her where to find it. She said she look and cant find anything. When I look, I found the letter in the exactly place where my husband said.

So, she got the letter. After that day she send him a FB email saying horrible things. For her my husband is the worst person in the world, for her and the entire family. :S (I wonder where she got that idea)

She told him never contact her anymore.

Last week she send an email saying that she is getting married.

I suggest my husband just congratulate her and bless her, not mentioning anything else. I told him that I can bet the only thing that she wants is money.

So, he send the email.

She replay asking for money.

She have not say anything about be walk down the aisle or a invitation, she have not say the date of the wedding. Nothing.

I thing there is not way for my husband look good in this situation. If he gives money will be critized, if not, he will be critized. If we go togeter,he will be critized. If he goes by himself, he will be critized.

Sometimes I think he just should not go. Dont give her anything. She have not appologize for the nasty email that she sent to him.

BTW, we are out of the country. Far away in south america.



September 10, 2013
6:21 am

I could have written any one of these letters.  My son and daughter where all I had when my husband died.  My father had passed years earlier and my mother was very ill.  I lost her a few years after my husband.  We went thru three long years as my husband suffered from cancer.  I thought nothing could hurt more than that.  Well I was wrong.  My daughter and I have been blamed for breathing as far as I can tell.  I have no clue as to what I've done or what his sister has done to deserve being treated so badly.  She was first asked to be best man, then told he changed his mind (a year later).  He is to be married in a few weeks and we haven't gotten invitations.  Apparently, his future wife (who he refers to as his wife) feels we don't like her, we've never liked her and she doesn't want us at her wedding because we will ruin her day.  She had no problem accepting my great grandmothers diamond though.  All I ever wanted was for my son to be happy, I paid for his college, helped support him thru applications to Med school, drove countless times to move him from one apt to another. Bought him his car, pay for his cell phone, I even bought airline tickets for him to fly to see this girl for Christmas so he would be happy.  Not to mention hockey mom, football mom, cub scout leader.  (Don't get the wrong idea, I work very hard for my money and this has been a tremendous burden for me over the years.) They lived for a year in my home rent free because I can't afford to give them a monetary gift at there wedding.  When they moved out left it like a pig sty. Now he has meet this selfish, irrational person who doesn't want him to have anything to do with his family.  The hurt is beyond belief and all I do is cry.  I haven't slept in weeks and I'm a total wreck.  The bottom line is they just don't respect me or what I've done to educate him and take care of him since his dad died.  The only thing is, I guess I'm not alone.  Sad and heartbroken doesn't begin to say how I feel.

September 4, 2013
7:14 am

sha said
I raised my son alone after his dad died. thought everything was fine, my son told me i was the best mom in the world, and the next day at his wedding (to a girl I accepted, but who seemed to have big control issues, little did I know), I was banned from all pictures and seated in the back row at the reception. My family and friends were devastated. My son didnt dance with me, or thank me, even though I singlehandedly put him through an expensive university, etc. etc. By the way the night before the wedding, I gave my son $10,000. That was in October, didn't hear from him over Christmas or last night New Year's Eve. Never saw it coming, Im devastated and have sought professional help to try to understand why it happened, psychologists tell me to keep the lines of communication open because he's probably in an abusive relationship. I contacted him on Christmas Day but he wouldn't answer the phone..I wonder if he'll ever wake up? Discouraging but maybe a blessing in disguise. his wife and he showed me who they are, I moved money around and away from him, and reluctantly took him out of the will - he had been my executor and power of attorney. Knowledge is power, and at least I know who he is now and what he is capable of...all we can do is hope that they see the light, but remember there are nursing homes filled with elderly parents who get no visitors...lets face it, we too have an ungrateful child..

Sha, I had the same experience.  Before my son was married he often told me how much he loved me and that I was his best friend.  Since the arrival of my DIL I am, apparently, the worst person in the world.  The verbal and emotional abuse is beyond belief.  I am forever dumbfounded and flummoxed by the things I am faulted for and the extreme overreaction to harmless things.  I, too, now know who my son is and what he is capable of.  I can't believe I was fooled for over 30 years!


August 26, 2013
7:35 am
Jays mom

My heart goes out to you- Im sharing a smilar experience. Im being blamed for things I havent done or said. Apologized countless times , sent letters, voice mails trying to reconcile. Im learning he is getting married of course Im excluded. Cant see me grandson anymore. I raised him and was extremely close to hime and made many sacrifices -yet I guess none of that counts. HIs Girlfreind who is 17 yrs older is threatend by me. I cry every weekend. He is my only son. What can I do??

August 25, 2013
11:58 pm

Reading all these posts make me feel like we are not alone.......Our son has always told his friends that he had the best parents and childhood, which made us feel we did the right things as parents.  We provided him with a loving home and close knit family and we always got along with no problems.  He also mentioned that he was close to his family to his now fiancee.  He started dating this girl who seemed nice at first. Because of her family background, we embraced her into our family and tried to include her in our family gatherings.  However,  Her personality changed after she got engaged to our son. Once she got engaged she sat me down and told me that we will not be having holidays with her and our son as all holidays will be for her family only.  Also, she informed me that we will do as she tells us. We had jumped through hoops trying to cater to her every whim because if we don't she would end up having drama tantrums and make us look like the bad people in our sons eyes. During her drama tantrums she would have to go for a drive to cool down. I think she has a bad temper.   She told our son that it's hard for her to be around his side of the family because we are a close knit normal family and her family has always had drama in her life and she comes from a dysfunctional family. Her parents are divorced and both severe alcoholics. Her father is living with a woman young enough to be his daughter with an illegitemate child (her dads and his girlfriend). Her parents never celebrate her birthday nor have they travelled to see her (they live in another state).  She flies to see them once a month.  Whenever we tried to have any relationship with our son and even include her she would always say she didn't have time and would not allow our son to spend time with us except for 1 time on his lunch hour.  However, when she needs something done she tells our son to have us do it. The latest was we needed to drive them to the airport 95 miles drive...on the way to the airport I try to make light conversation and her comment to me was that she didn't wan't to hear anything I had to say and when she felt like listening to me talk she will let me know when I can speak.  This was the last straw and I told her that I will not allow her to disrespect me anymore nor will I be treated in a rude manner again by her.  Well she had another drama meltdown and my son has not spoken to us since that episode 5 months ago.  He did mention to me that he knows that she has issues but he thinks he can fix her issues.   Now we get a wedding invite and I'm not sure if we should even go. The sad thing is that she and our son cater to her parents like they were Kings and Queens and here her parents could care less about her as they have their alcoholic dysfunctionality. But she does everything to make them love her.  Here my husband and I have been loving and caring and tried to embrace her especially since we know that her family life is not positive and we get treated like garbage.  I just don't get it.  I am so heartbroken that I don't think I have any tears left.

February 21, 2013
6:20 pm

Dear Francis,

So very sorry to hear of your misery. Your story echos many other stories posted here.  The part re your grandchild is heart-wrenching. 

Your confession that you were hurt by the actions taken to keep you away from the grandkids was evidently not well received.  Many people on this forum can speak to that.   

I am glad you are recovering. You mention you hope to find a nice man with whom to spend your time. I hope you will.  Meantime, take good care of yourself.  

Yours sincerely,




Forum Timezone: America/Los_Angeles

Most Users Ever Online: 887

Currently Online:
184 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
2 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 983

Members: 1

Moderators: 0

Admins: 2

Forum Stats:

Groups: 1

Forums: 9

Topics: 775

Posts: 5857

Newest Members: wpengine


    Tuesday OCT 21ST 5:30 PST