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Adult Childen Estranged from your parents, Please come forward!
May 19, 2016
11:55 am
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onestepatatime
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Laurie, Your parents sound like narcissists and very toxic. The negative comments and constant criticism are the clues. They make it all about themselves, it sounds. The criticism is a means of control and manipulation. They want you to be what they want you to be, so that you serve them in whatever role they demand of you. The blackmail and telling you you are dead to them if you do ---, really show they don't love you as you deserve to be loved. I found Life Code by Dr Phil very helpful and also the forum called "raised by narcissists" on reddit. I think what we have to do is realize that our parents' behavior is not a reflection on us, we did not cause it nor can we cure it. Also, it is not personal to us, they'd be saying the same ugly, critical, manipulative words to any other child if you weren't their child and someone else was. It is not about you. You did nothing wrong. They have a personality disorder or mental illness.

May 18, 2016
5:28 pm
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Laurie kidwell
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I don't know where to start. I always had a strange relationship with both parents. My father was emotionally unavailable to my mother and I became a serrogate spouse for my mother as a teenager. That became a real problem when I left home and then eventually got married. My mother acted like a jealous ex spouse. When I joined the military my parents were extremely against it and sabotaged my effort by contacting my references and asking them not to be a reference. In the beginning they asked my husband and I to move back in while I went to basic training and then when it was clear we were following through with it, kicked us out. We stayed with my  elderly grandmother (who was supportive) for two weeks until my mother threatened to stop providing her assistance. My husband was basically homeless and I got on the plane with a voice mail stating " if you get on that plane you are dead to me". I cried and then got on the plane for the hardest few months of my life. But in hindsight 10 years in the service and I never regretted the decision.

My father is both narcissistic and has antiquated views of women's roles that I do not share. He has made comments that he has no respect for my husband for allowing me to make certain choices he was against. When our son was diagnosed with autism and my husband stayed home to facilitate treatment we were criticized and belittled by my parents. We were never good enough. I talked to my father about getting my doctorate and he stated that I would not be able to compete because I did not have experience working with intelligent accomplished people. At the time I worked alongside doctors with prestigious educational and work backgrounds and I could not understand where the comment came from other than a previous statement that only people who could not make it in college or the real world joined the military.

My mother would often criticize and belittle decisions acting as if I needed their approval. Then when I would get angry she would act that I was being petty or imagining her slights. For instance, when I stated several people thought I should apply for a director position, she stated I could not handle that position or the stress. I did not plan on applying but was flattered that people thought of me and wanted to share. This is an example of common subtle put downs. 

So after years of this and more I began feeling cycles of anger and resentment towards my parents triggered by each slight. I would also feel self doubt and wonder if my husband and I were the problem. About a year and a half ago I decided to go no contact. I wanted my kids to still have the opportunity to speak and visit as long as it remained non toxic. Recently I have noticed their treatment of the kids has begun to exhibit similar traits and we began to make boundaries. 

After the period of no contact we had one last blowout last week where my father told me that my mother was dying (not to reconcile but as a weapon) and permanently cut us and the kids off. I was left feeling hurt, guilty, and angry. I realized then nothing would change and I need to move forward and heal. 

April 18, 2016
2:19 pm
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Judith
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freemybrain said
My opinion on the 'estranged ' issue to Dr Coleman 

Whit all my respect Dr Coleman,

Please let me state my opinion on this subject. Why not try get people set those (according to me sane and healthy) basics of parenthood already from scratch...?

I will see it as a true blessing never ever counted on, if my kids will like to hang out with me even the least as adults. I have always figured I am obliged to have to earn that lovely blessing and will never ever count on it.

I'll of course, as we all would, feel deep grief if I mess up. But if, I will promise to spend all time and money to take a deep look into my own inner flaws instead and work on them eager to become the adult parent they would like to have in their lives. Not focusing on what's wrong with them. There's wishes of how an adult parent shall be like, are my rule. Will always be. Within the frames of higher legality. I love my precious no narc kids dearly:)! Their genuine souls and inner wills are sanctuared for me. That's my parental rule of thumb! One will always have an obligation to stay being foremost a responsible mature unconditionally living parent to ones children. No difference just cause the kid turn adult. I answered Yes in eternal, to that role in my relation to my kids, as fast as they got out into this world, ever since. 

And I heard you talk about a culture raising narcissistic children. Here is my view on that in the perspective of parents estranged from their adult children.

I as a cert. and experienced child psychologist have understood narcissistic children with no narcissistic parents as such.  Them adult children would rarely rarely wish for No contact. No imo rather the very oposite, they would really strive to optimize their adult relations with their parents to be as tight and frequent as needed to achieve optimal narcissistic supply from their parents.  Narcs can't deal well with the oposite imo, the immense pain and deep existential grief it is to cut off a parent. Sorry Mr Coleman. All respect but that is my informed opinion. Thanx Mr for letting me vent it with you.  

Yes I wanted to free my  children despite the pain it caused me having no other family around - I worked hard on  myself to try and change any dysfunctional habits learned through receiving similar growing up - I did need to separate myself at times when the intense pain became intollerable on anniversaries of extreme cruelty such as my mother dumping me one Xmas - I was called to the head's study to be told ' Your mother's just rung to say she can't have you this xmas you'll have to stay here -   two of the worst  abusers you really couldn't imagine  - running their supposed 'school' for children conveniently labelled 'maladjusted'  Me and one other younger girl were sleeping in the 8 bedded dormitory - cold green linoleum, flimsy thin curtains and a lu kewarm radiator - under a massive bay window with draughty leaded panes looking out on a vastly snowing scene There was no escape  This ruined all subsequent Xmases forever after. 

Then again during summer holidays in the August being my birthday me and the other poor equally neglected bastards were due to see the first James Bond movie for my birthday treat - I came downstairs after putting on my makeup - Doctor Hilda Bullen psych saw my lipstick and instantly homed in for the kill - shrieking that I looked like a tart not surprisingly my hysterical terror was just what she wanted - sending me back up to the dormitory - I never forget the sound of footsteps of the others crunching up that long gravel drive on their way to see the film on my birthday treat without me - Those two incidents have coloured two of the most important anniversaries throughout my life! 

The truth being both parents/ guardians and whoever else were the problem -  just like  teachers and both Heads were all as mad as hatters It took decades before I got to speak to an ex employee who suddenly enlightened me 'You do realise that both Dr Bullen and Trixie were closets!  The penny dropped with a resounding crash  - I could never understand why I was always being targeted for preferring the boys - I presume my lipstick signalled danger to Bullen and rage and who needed to punish me for daring to be normal.  How sick is that!  No wonder I got married to a seriously repressed. 

April 18, 2016
12:56 pm
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Judith
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carolyn said
Judith, I just finished reading your story and really do feel for you and the travesties you have been through.  I am sure it was very therapeutic for you to vent and put it on paper.  You seem highly intelligent and well versed.  Have you thought about publishing your story or writing a book?  Your story of how you persevered could bring hope to others.  Learning that I was worth standing up for and not letting others define me took over twenty years to learn and actually do but it is always a work in progress.  May you have peace and happiness in your life.  You deserve it.

Carolyn thank you so much for those kind and comforting words - As a matter of fact I've been writing my life story for a few years now - the Moroccan I naively befriended and tried to help when he begged for assistance being on his 'last appeal' to remain in the UK - my prime reason being he'd almost immediately told me when we met that he'd been sexually abused by an older boy in his own village - This of course 'got me'  I knew if he was sent back that there'd be no hope of his getting any therapy because male abuse on male is taboo out there - anyhow he soon got the better of me being an addict - he began demanding a massive sum of money saying if he was sent back he'd have no home and his family wouldn't want him with no business to support himself - before I knew it he was blaming me and calling me racist and his unpredictable behaviour put me into shock e.g. screaming in the car threats to pull the wheel over and take us both to hell on the M25 - he did the same again just an hour away from his forceful demands to marry despite my saying it was 'too late' I'd walked out of the first attempt in tears - he'd got under my skin using charm and manipulation - besides which my mother had died and I was in shock over that having no idea where she was since 1995 nor had her number since I was eighteen - anyway Ismail got his way second time round by yelling in my face in the pouring rain that he would pull the wheel over again we were just an hour away from this appointment at the Registry Office that he set up again via his mobile - I wasn't intending to keep it but take him to the drug and alcohol drop in appointment instead -  I was so scared for my life that I capitulated - that same night which seemed totally unreal and nothing like a 'wedding' he then started on me again - smacking a mug down on the diningroom table denting it - sweeping a tray of food right off the table egg yolk all up the curtains and my mother's portrait in her WRNS uniform (during WWII)  then while demanding this massive sum he went upstairs knowing that my life story was the most valuable thing in the house brought the manuscript down in a Marks & Spencer carrier bag then lay on the sofa saying if he didn't get the money he set fire to it and himself out in the garden ! I was now traumatised by this threat though never showed it - just sat at the diningroom table not moving a muscle - I had to then coax him up to bed then wait till he slept and come back down swap the manuscript with something that looked like it and hid it out in the garage in a binliner - waited up all night till the bank opened and rang to say I was coming in with him and wanted him arrested for blackmail.  I also rang the Police who said they wanted to ring me back but I told them not to in case he heard - he'd bought an axe and a mattock supposedly to cut down my unwanted magnolia tree bought for a 7th wedding anniversary (father of my children) I preferred not to remember!  The police arrested him in the bank but during my statement suggested I'd said it was blackmail to get him out the house - based on past prejudice after reporting one of their lot when through the party wall I overheard the sound of a blow during domestic strife -the toddler's sobs convinced me she'd been hit. I did was right and I'd do it again because I know I'd never have tolerated violence in adulthood for more than a day but I was conditioned to do so by parents hitting. Now I know better but it's one thing knowing it intellectually but physically is quite a different matter when one longs to love and be loved Thanks again so much -Take care  (((Hugs)))

April 18, 2016
11:00 am
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Judith
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Judith said

Bob said
my parents split up when I was about 6. I loved both my parents although neither were perfect they put me thru hell manipulating me against each other. My mom would do anything for me and my dad helped coach sports and we had a lot of good moments. He would do things like throw me down and stuff for not listening never hit me but my mom would involve the cops if had bruises making everything worse just to be cunty cuz she hated my dad. Then my mom made this Indian tepee for me and my friends to have sleepovers and it was for me to play in and my dad had it in the yard with a for sale sign so she took it and he called the cops on her got her arrested in front of me cuz he hated her. Their hate for each other was stronger than their love for me but despite all this shit I didn't have the worst life. One day when I was 11 I get off the bus to start a new week at my dads and he's not home cuz he's in Vegas and didn't tell my mom to keep me an extra week so finally the next week comes and he in the kitchen with his new girlfriend that I only met a few times and he tells me they got married. I was shocked and a kinda mad he didn't tell me he was gonna do the shit but other than that didn't fell strongly either way cuz I barely knew her. Turns out she's 38 years old never had kids never married and hated me almost right away cuz she's not used to 12 year old boys doing immature kid shit. She wouldn't allow my dad to play catch with me hardly or do anything with me even tho I was only there every other week she was jealous. He took her side always my baseball team went to Cooperstown New York for a tournament and to visit the hall of fame she made him stay home when we had this planned before they even met she made my dog live outside she called me a retard because I was in a lower math class. One night she had been drinking I called her a bitch and she beat the shit out of me punched and slapped me in the face several times while my dad watched and only stopped her after my face was really fucked up. I go to school tell what happened child services gets involved I only go over for visits after that then the abuse turned to intense psychological she told neighbors that soon I would be out of the family she would pick try to get me to blow up she found out I had an incident at my moms where I got arrested and would tell me I belong in a cage. One day I was on a swing set she told me to get off cuz if I fell and got a bruise my "crazy bitch of a mom" would call the cops I was so mad I started cussing her out then my dad came and I told him what he said and he backed her up said my mom was crazy that sent me into a seething rage I got a handful of sand threw it in her face then took off on my dad punching him in the chest and I ended up breaking my wrist on one of the punches. I didn't feel the pain until like 20 minutes later when I calmed down cuz I was so angry my vision was spotting and my fingertips and legs were tingling. I told my mom what happened and she told the cops my dad broke my wrist(later she swears she misunderstood me) I didn't intend to lie but at the time I saw it as a way out I hated my stepmom and also my dad at the time for basically choosing her over me. So I went with the lie and didn't talk to him ever again except for once in counseling when I was 15 once we got food when I was 16 and once when he gave me my dog cuz he was moving to Florida and his wife didn't want to take it with them when I was 18. I remember when I was 12 telling the judge I want zero relationship with him she warned me that I would wake up one day when I'm like 30 and regret not having that relationship at least in some capacity and at the time I didn't believe her now I'm 19 and about a week ago I broke down and cried for the first time harder than I have ever cried in my life it hurts worse than anything you could imagine I only think how he must feel. I take some comfort in the fact that he has 2 more kids now but it's killing me. I caution anyone in a similar position that justified or not losing a relationship with a parent will come back to hurt you somewhere down the line do everything you can to hold onto that relationship even if it's just talking every once in a while whatever just don't let that shit go you only get one.

Sadly Bob there are some people who become parents but are far too immature to manage it and unfortunately the statistics tell us that a child who finds themselves with a step parent is far more at risk of abuse than the natural parent - it was completely unacceptable of any parent to just stand there and fail to save their child from a step parent's shocking violence  that you've been put through - Unfortunately it may be that while a Judge can suggest that down the line you'll regret not speaking to your father - but he needs to come up with apologies and explanations for taking that woman's side against his own child - It sounds to me like he was jealous of your relationship with your natural mother - sounds like he is extremely immature and incapable of being the kind of loving gentle and protective  father all children deserve and need in this difficult world we live in - It's your father's responsibility to mend the relationship between you with abject apologies and not the other way round - He is the one who should've been there for you from day one and not created a living hell and dysfunctional home life - Your mother deserves a medal for trying so hard but sounds like your father made it impossible - as for putting a 'for sale' notice on the tepee your mother made for you - that is totally despicable just shows how immature and incapable he was - in short he sounds like an overgrown school kid who has never learned some compassion and humanity - your dad was not a proper father to you - not at all and it's not right that you should be holding on to misplaced guilt here - you deserved so much more than that - we need to learn to love ourselves no matter what - and when we are born into this world as innocent little beings we depend on the parent to protect and love us - how is it in the animal world most mothers of the young automatically love and protect - We never asked to be born into this difficult world and we all deserve love, protection and to be given the BEST example of how to love and know that we're loved - Your anger is justified your trust was totally betrayed and your stepmother should've been arrested for child abuse and your father for aiding and abetting.  As parents we are duty bound to protect defenceless children - the fact that I was never protected gave me the message that I wasn't worth it which in turn pushed me into similar adult relationships where I accepted violence wrongly believing it was all part of a so-called 'loving relationship'  Neither Physically or Mentally hurting your supposed 'nearest and dearest'  has got NOTHING to do a 'True, Healthy Loving Relationship - None at All  - you've been given ALL the wrong messages by adults who have treated you VERY badly If you father can't give his sincere apologies and raise his game and condemn the violence of that woman he's with then he needs treatment - whether it's alcohol, or drugs or merely a mental disorder you'll be fighting a losing battle unless these people get treatment.  Take care of yourself Bob you DESERVE the BEST after all of that - It's possible you've developed Post Traumatic Stress - I was determined my own sons would get a better childhood than I ever had and I wanted them to know that they were loved - Find kinder and more gentle friends to be with -Learning Mindfulness meditation can be a helpful tool and of course a good therapist - learn to respect yourself and your own safety and peace of mind - There are many 12 Step support groups around ACA (Adult Child of Alcoholic or Dysfunctional families - Co-Da that teaches us to learn to lov

Bob said
my parents split up when I was about 6. I loved both my parents although neither were perfect they put me thru hell manipulating me against each other. My mom would do anything for me and my dad helped coach sports and we had a lot of good moments. He would do things like throw me down and stuff for not listening never hit me but my mom would involve the cops if had bruises making everything worse just to be cunty cuz she hated my dad. Then my mom made this Indian tepee for me and my friends to have sleepovers and it was for me to play in and my dad had it in the yard with a for sale sign so she took it and he called the cops on her got her arrested in front of me cuz he hated her. Their hate for each other was stronger than their love for me but despite all this shit I didn't have the worst life. One day when I was 11 I get off the bus to start a new week at my dads and he's not home cuz he's in Vegas and didn't tell my mom to keep me an extra week so finally the next week comes and he in the kitchen with his new girlfriend that I only met a few times and he tells me they got married. I was shocked and a kinda mad he didn't tell me he was gonna do the shit but other than that didn't fell strongly either way cuz I barely knew her. Turns out she's 38 years old never had kids never married and hated me almost right away cuz she's not used to 12 year old boys doing immature kid shit. She wouldn't allow my dad to play catch with me hardly or do anything with me even tho I was only there every other week she was jealous. He took her side always my baseball team went to Cooperstown New York for a tournament and to visit the hall of fame she made him stay home when we had this planned before they even met she made my dog live outside she called me a retard because I was in a lower math class. One night she had been drinking I called her a bitch and she beat the shit out of me punched and slapped me in the face several times while my dad watched and only stopped her after my face was really fucked up. I go to school tell what happened child services gets involved I only go over for visits after that then the abuse turned to intense psychological she told neighbors that soon I would be out of the family she would pick try to get me to blow up she found out I had an incident at my moms where I got arrested and would tell me I belong in a cage. One day I was on a swing set she told me to get off cuz if I fell and got a bruise my "crazy bitch of a mom" would call the cops I was so mad I started cussing her out then my dad came and I told him what he said and he backed her up said my mom was crazy that sent me into a seething rage I got a handful of sand threw it in her face then took off on my dad punching him in the chest and I ended up breaking my wrist on one of the punches. I didn't feel the pain until like 20 minutes later when I calmed down cuz I was so angry my vision was spotting and my fingertips and legs were tingling. I told my mom what happened and she told the cops my dad broke my wrist(later she swears she misunderstood me) I didn't intend to lie but at the time I saw it as a way out I hated my stepmom and also my dad at the time for basically choosing her over me. So I went with the lie and didn't talk to him ever again except for once in counseling when I was 15 once we got food when I was 16 and once when he gave me my dog cuz he was moving to Florida and his wife didn't want to take it with them when I was 18. I remember when I was 12 telling the judge I want zero relationship with him she warned me that I would wake up one day when I'm like 30 and regret not having that relationship at least in some capacity and at the time I didn't believe her now I'm 19 and about a week ago I broke down and cried for the first time harder than I have ever cried in my life it hurts worse than anything you could imagine I only think how he must feel. I take some comfort in the fact that he has 2 more kids now but it's killing me. I caution anyone in a similar position that justified or not losing a relationship with a parent will come back to hurt you somewhere down the line do everything you can to hold onto that relationship even if it's just talking every once in a while whatever just don't let that shit go you only get one.

e and respect oneself - Al-anon - Al-Ateen (for children/teenagers from dysfunctiona families  AA You will find many like yourself in those meetings - (((Hugs)))  

Hi Bob part of my message may have got cut off from my first one - the rest of it was 'Love and respect oneself -Al-anon or Alateen (for teenagers from alcoholic or dysfunctional families -Co-Da and of course AA - You will find many like yourself in those meetings (((Hugs)))

April 18, 2016
10:53 am
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Judith
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Bob said
my parents split up when I was about 6. I loved both my parents although neither were perfect they put me thru hell manipulating me against each other. My mom would do anything for me and my dad helped coach sports and we had a lot of good moments. He would do things like throw me down and stuff for not listening never hit me but my mom would involve the cops if had bruises making everything worse just to be cunty cuz she hated my dad. Then my mom made this Indian tepee for me and my friends to have sleepovers and it was for me to play in and my dad had it in the yard with a for sale sign so she took it and he called the cops on her got her arrested in front of me cuz he hated her. Their hate for each other was stronger than their love for me but despite all this shit I didn't have the worst life. One day when I was 11 I get off the bus to start a new week at my dads and he's not home cuz he's in Vegas and didn't tell my mom to keep me an extra week so finally the next week comes and he in the kitchen with his new girlfriend that I only met a few times and he tells me they got married. I was shocked and a kinda mad he didn't tell me he was gonna do the shit but other than that didn't fell strongly either way cuz I barely knew her. Turns out she's 38 years old never had kids never married and hated me almost right away cuz she's not used to 12 year old boys doing immature kid shit. She wouldn't allow my dad to play catch with me hardly or do anything with me even tho I was only there every other week she was jealous. He took her side always my baseball team went to Cooperstown New York for a tournament and to visit the hall of fame she made him stay home when we had this planned before they even met she made my dog live outside she called me a retard because I was in a lower math class. One night she had been drinking I called her a bitch and she beat the shit out of me punched and slapped me in the face several times while my dad watched and only stopped her after my face was really fucked up. I go to school tell what happened child services gets involved I only go over for visits after that then the abuse turned to intense psychological she told neighbors that soon I would be out of the family she would pick try to get me to blow up she found out I had an incident at my moms where I got arrested and would tell me I belong in a cage. One day I was on a swing set she told me to get off cuz if I fell and got a bruise my "crazy bitch of a mom" would call the cops I was so mad I started cussing her out then my dad came and I told him what he said and he backed her up said my mom was crazy that sent me into a seething rage I got a handful of sand threw it in her face then took off on my dad punching him in the chest and I ended up breaking my wrist on one of the punches. I didn't feel the pain until like 20 minutes later when I calmed down cuz I was so angry my vision was spotting and my fingertips and legs were tingling. I told my mom what happened and she told the cops my dad broke my wrist(later she swears she misunderstood me) I didn't intend to lie but at the time I saw it as a way out I hated my stepmom and also my dad at the time for basically choosing her over me. So I went with the lie and didn't talk to him ever again except for once in counseling when I was 15 once we got food when I was 16 and once when he gave me my dog cuz he was moving to Florida and his wife didn't want to take it with them when I was 18. I remember when I was 12 telling the judge I want zero relationship with him she warned me that I would wake up one day when I'm like 30 and regret not having that relationship at least in some capacity and at the time I didn't believe her now I'm 19 and about a week ago I broke down and cried for the first time harder than I have ever cried in my life it hurts worse than anything you could imagine I only think how he must feel. I take some comfort in the fact that he has 2 more kids now but it's killing me. I caution anyone in a similar position that justified or not losing a relationship with a parent will come back to hurt you somewhere down the line do everything you can to hold onto that relationship even if it's just talking every once in a while whatever just don't let that shit go you only get one.

Sadly Bob there are some people who become parents but are far too immature to manage it and unfortunately the statistics tell us that a child who finds themselves with a step parent is far more at risk of abuse than the natural parent - it was completely unacceptable of any parent to just stand there and fail to save their child from a step parent's shocking violence  that you've been put through - Unfortunately it may be that while a Judge can suggest that down the line you'll regret not speaking to your father - but he needs to come up with apologies and explanations for taking that woman's side against his own child - It sounds to me like he was jealous of your relationship with your natural mother - sounds like he is extremely immature and incapable of being the kind of loving gentle and protective  father all children deserve and need in this difficult world we live in - It's your father's responsibility to mend the relationship between you with abject apologies and not the other way round - He is the one who should've been there for you from day one and not created a living hell and dysfunctional home life - Your mother deserves a medal for trying so hard but sounds like your father made it impossible - as for putting a 'for sale' notice on the tepee your mother made for you - that is totally despicable just shows how immature and incapable he was - in short he sounds like an overgrown school kid who has never learned some compassion and humanity - your dad was not a proper father to you - not at all and it's not right that you should be holding on to misplaced guilt here - you deserved so much more than that - we need to learn to love ourselves no matter what - and when we are born into this world as innocent little beings we depend on the parent to protect and love us - how is it in the animal world most mothers of the young automatically love and protect - We never asked to be born into this difficult world and we all deserve love, protection and to be given the BEST example of how to love and know that we're loved - Your anger is justified your trust was totally betrayed and your stepmother should've been arrested for child abuse and your father for aiding and abetting.  As parents we are duty bound to protect defenceless children - the fact that I was never protected gave me the message that I wasn't worth it which in turn pushed me into similar adult relationships where I accepted violence wrongly believing it was all part of a so-called 'loving relationship'  Neither Physically or Mentally hurting your supposed 'nearest and dearest'  has got NOTHING to do a 'True, Healthy Loving Relationship - None at All  - you've been given ALL the wrong messages by adults who have treated you VERY badly If you father can't give his sincere apologies and raise his game and condemn the violence of that woman he's with then he needs treatment - whether it's alcohol, or drugs or merely a mental disorder you'll be fighting a losing battle unless these people get treatment.  Take care of yourself Bob you DESERVE the BEST after all of that - It's possible you've developed Post Traumatic Stress - I was determined my own sons would get a better childhood than I ever had and I wanted them to know that they were loved - Find kinder and more gentle friends to be with -Learning Mindfulness meditation can be a helpful tool and of course a good therapist - learn to respect yourself and your own safety and peace of mind - There are many 12 Step support groups around ACA (Adult Child of Alcoholic or Dysfunctional families - Co-Da that teaches us to learn to lov

Bob said
my parents split up when I was about 6. I loved both my parents although neither were perfect they put me thru hell manipulating me against each other. My mom would do anything for me and my dad helped coach sports and we had a lot of good moments. He would do things like throw me down and stuff for not listening never hit me but my mom would involve the cops if had bruises making everything worse just to be cunty cuz she hated my dad. Then my mom made this Indian tepee for me and my friends to have sleepovers and it was for me to play in and my dad had it in the yard with a for sale sign so she took it and he called the cops on her got her arrested in front of me cuz he hated her. Their hate for each other was stronger than their love for me but despite all this shit I didn't have the worst life. One day when I was 11 I get off the bus to start a new week at my dads and he's not home cuz he's in Vegas and didn't tell my mom to keep me an extra week so finally the next week comes and he in the kitchen with his new girlfriend that I only met a few times and he tells me they got married. I was shocked and a kinda mad he didn't tell me he was gonna do the shit but other than that didn't fell strongly either way cuz I barely knew her. Turns out she's 38 years old never had kids never married and hated me almost right away cuz she's not used to 12 year old boys doing immature kid shit. She wouldn't allow my dad to play catch with me hardly or do anything with me even tho I was only there every other week she was jealous. He took her side always my baseball team went to Cooperstown New York for a tournament and to visit the hall of fame she made him stay home when we had this planned before they even met she made my dog live outside she called me a retard because I was in a lower math class. One night she had been drinking I called her a bitch and she beat the shit out of me punched and slapped me in the face several times while my dad watched and only stopped her after my face was really fucked up. I go to school tell what happened child services gets involved I only go over for visits after that then the abuse turned to intense psychological she told neighbors that soon I would be out of the family she would pick try to get me to blow up she found out I had an incident at my moms where I got arrested and would tell me I belong in a cage. One day I was on a swing set she told me to get off cuz if I fell and got a bruise my "crazy bitch of a mom" would call the cops I was so mad I started cussing her out then my dad came and I told him what he said and he backed her up said my mom was crazy that sent me into a seething rage I got a handful of sand threw it in her face then took off on my dad punching him in the chest and I ended up breaking my wrist on one of the punches. I didn't feel the pain until like 20 minutes later when I calmed down cuz I was so angry my vision was spotting and my fingertips and legs were tingling. I told my mom what happened and she told the cops my dad broke my wrist(later she swears she misunderstood me) I didn't intend to lie but at the time I saw it as a way out I hated my stepmom and also my dad at the time for basically choosing her over me. So I went with the lie and didn't talk to him ever again except for once in counseling when I was 15 once we got food when I was 16 and once when he gave me my dog cuz he was moving to Florida and his wife didn't want to take it with them when I was 18. I remember when I was 12 telling the judge I want zero relationship with him she warned me that I would wake up one day when I'm like 30 and regret not having that relationship at least in some capacity and at the time I didn't believe her now I'm 19 and about a week ago I broke down and cried for the first time harder than I have ever cried in my life it hurts worse than anything you could imagine I only think how he must feel. I take some comfort in the fact that he has 2 more kids now but it's killing me. I caution anyone in a similar position that justified or not losing a relationship with a parent will come back to hurt you somewhere down the line do everything you can to hold onto that relationship even if it's just talking every once in a while whatever just don't let that shit go you only get one.

e and respect oneself - Al-anon - Al-Ateen (for children/teenagers from dysfunctiona families  AA You will find many like yourself in those meetings - (((Hugs)))  

April 16, 2016
5:29 am
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fred
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Aww Bob, that's a sad story.  It sounds like you had no refuge from the emotional pain that was heaped upon you.  Your parents were aware of the pain that they put you through, but didn't seem to care. Both were in a mission to hurt each other, and you were "collateral damage."   They both should be ashamed of themselves, and that most assuredly includes your wicked stepmother.  Enough!   Quit going down memory lane alone!   Sometimes pain is just to raw to digest alone. In all fairness, your parents needed to act like adults, for your emotional health. Now hear you are in this angst, that needs to be assuaged.

Get in touch with your Dad, sounds like you need it Bob. Sounds like you all need to apologize and make amends to each other. Ask yourself, if you are ready for a possible rejection? Ask yourself if you are ready to accept your new siblings?  Ask yourself if you are ready to apologize?  It sounds like you have grown emotionally and ready for a reconciliation.  

Write a letter, and see what happens first.  I have a feeling that perhaps everybody involved may be tired of the immature alienation also. I've always been empowered with the integrity of a true apology.  Lots of folks don't know how great it is to just say, " I'm sorry". Try it, they may be ready.  Oh yeah, thank you for allowing me to read how my son may be feeling. I needed to see that side also. Sometimes emotional pain becomes to strong to look at from all sides.

April 16, 2016
12:52 am
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Bob
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my parents split up when I was about 6. I loved both my parents although neither were perfect they put me thru hell manipulating me against each other. My mom would do anything for me and my dad helped coach sports and we had a lot of good moments. He would do things like throw me down and stuff for not listening never hit me but my mom would involve the cops if had bruises making everything worse just to be cunty cuz she hated my dad. Then my mom made this Indian tepee for me and my friends to have sleepovers and it was for me to play in and my dad had it in the yard with a for sale sign so she took it and he called the cops on her got her arrested in front of me cuz he hated her. Their hate for each other was stronger than their love for me but despite all this shit I didn't have the worst life. One day when I was 11 I get off the bus to start a new week at my dads and he's not home cuz he's in Vegas and didn't tell my mom to keep me an extra week so finally the next week comes and he in the kitchen with his new girlfriend that I only met a few times and he tells me they got married. I was shocked and a kinda mad he didn't tell me he was gonna do the shit but other than that didn't fell strongly either way cuz I barely knew her. Turns out she's 38 years old never had kids never married and hated me almost right away cuz she's not used to 12 year old boys doing immature kid shit. She wouldn't allow my dad to play catch with me hardly or do anything with me even tho I was only there every other week she was jealous. He took her side always my baseball team went to Cooperstown New York for a tournament and to visit the hall of fame she made him stay home when we had this planned before they even met she made my dog live outside she called me a retard because I was in a lower math class. One night she had been drinking I called her a bitch and she beat the shit out of me punched and slapped me in the face several times while my dad watched and only stopped her after my face was really fucked up. I go to school tell what happened child services gets involved I only go over for visits after that then the abuse turned to intense psychological she told neighbors that soon I would be out of the family she would pick try to get me to blow up she found out I had an incident at my moms where I got arrested and would tell me I belong in a cage. One day I was on a swing set she told me to get off cuz if I fell and got a bruise my "crazy bitch of a mom" would call the cops I was so mad I started cussing her out then my dad came and I told him what he said and he backed her up said my mom was crazy that sent me into a seething rage I got a handful of sand threw it in her face then took off on my dad punching him in the chest and I ended up breaking my wrist on one of the punches. I didn't feel the pain until like 20 minutes later when I calmed down cuz I was so angry my vision was spotting and my fingertips and legs were tingling. I told my mom what happened and she told the cops my dad broke my wrist(later she swears she misunderstood me) I didn't intend to lie but at the time I saw it as a way out I hated my stepmom and also my dad at the time for basically choosing her over me. So I went with the lie and didn't talk to him ever again except for once in counseling when I was 15 once we got food when I was 16 and once when he gave me my dog cuz he was moving to Florida and his wife didn't want to take it with them when I was 18. I remember when I was 12 telling the judge I want zero relationship with him she warned me that I would wake up one day when I'm like 30 and regret not having that relationship at least in some capacity and at the time I didn't believe her now I'm 19 and about a week ago I broke down and cried for the first time harder than I have ever cried in my life it hurts worse than anything you could imagine I only think how he must feel. I take some comfort in the fact that he has 2 more kids now but it's killing me. I caution anyone in a similar position that justified or not losing a relationship with a parent will come back to hurt you somewhere down the line do everything you can to hold onto that relationship even if it's just talking every once in a while whatever just don't let that shit go you only get one.

April 10, 2016
1:11 pm
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carolyn
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Judith, I just finished reading your story and really do feel for you and the travesties you have been through.  I am sure it was very therapeutic for you to vent and put it on paper.  You seem highly intelligent and well versed.  Have you thought about publishing your story or writing a book?  Your story of how you persevered could bring hope to others.  Learning that I was worth standing up for and not letting others define me took over twenty years to learn and actually do but it is always a work in progress.  May you have peace and happiness in your life.  You deserve it.

April 9, 2016
6:25 pm
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Judith
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LH said
Judith, it might be useful to remember that despite all her wisdom, Alice Miller was a horrific mother to her own son, continuing her abuse of him until her death. Awareness of abusive behavior, even deep understanding of it, doesn't guarantee that a person won't act abusively.

It sounds like you've had a horrible life. I commend you for the work you've done on yourself to get through it.

But it also sounds like the chaos in your current life is unending. Like Anonymouse, I was exhausted after reading it. Your defensive response to Anonymouse's response, plus your multiple rapid-fire posts immediately afterward, suggest that something Anonymouse said struck a nerve.

Please, show this thread to your therapist. See what they say. It's possible that some of the keys you need to be released from your pain are locked away where you can't see them, but others can.

 LH Whilst I'm sure your suggestions to 'show this thread to a therapist' is well meant - not only am I an extremely independent adult  I am also master of my own fate and future well being -That night I wrote that first Blog came out of an anxiety attack - I think I'm still going through a late menopause - By the way therapists are all too often quite Co-Dependent  needing us more than we need them!!  No my current life may seem like it but it's definitely not unending chaos' I might have given that impression in the way some of it was written  -  But those events I've described have occurred over more than four decades 44yrs starting at the point when I went through my self imposed immediately withdrawal from three lots of drugs that I had no business being put on in the first place.  Which then prompted me to dispense with the father of my grown up sons now aged 50 and 47  -  I don't need a 1-2-1 therapist anymore - I freed myself from self doubt and chronic low self worth - I've no idea about Alice Miller's child rearing history -& not sure where the details came from - She did have enemies in the establishment- resigning from body of psychotherapists- She'd been in denial over the relationship with her own mother believing it was perfectly fine - Till she admitted when she began Stettbacher's 'Free Associative Painting' therapy - the truth of it suddenly hit her. But for me she opened the prison gates  She condemned flawed  religious dogma 'Spare the rod and spoil the child' and 'Honour They Mother & Father No Matter What They Do- ' Turn the Other Cheek' where does it say when enough is enough ? Senseless controlling proclamations that in turn caused children to believe the inflicted untold abuse was deserved. And as I did conditions them to walk straight into further abusive relationships in adulthood.  It was my grandmother's geriatrician who pointed out her drug problem needed urgent attention - I'd have missed and overlooked the need to research drug data and what the hell I'd naively trusted doctors had my 'best interest at heart' - Far from it judging from their unjust and prejudiced comments left in my notes - How strange that a supposed outwardly 'loving' spouse should denounce the drugbook (British National Formulary) the doctors' mini bible that I brought home to  showing him the shocking warnings of such side effects as 'possible brain damage from longterm use (15yrs) Addiction (anywhere between 4-14 days) and like walking into a labyrinth and forgetting my way out - 'Amnesia' (how convenient for a philanderer ) to have him exclaim 'You and your STUPID book of drugs - Diabetics have drugs for life so what's the harm?'

'But I'm not going to DIE if I come off am I!!'

But instinctively he knew the game was up once off and I'd no longer believe that I'd driven him to yet another infidelity.

Inner Child work & self esteem gradually changed all that.  To demonstrate how appallingly dangerous thee mind altering drugs are in frustrated relationships - within less than a month of going 'cold turkey' I suddenly saw the face that had taunted me and put  me down which the drugs had disallowed me to see for 22 years - and in a state of severe tranquilliser withdrawal, only 6-8 weeks from Ovarian cyst surgery, seeing both of my sons leave home to start work in the Queens bank in the Strand (I must have done something right!) and the miserable death of my grandmother I'm sure was finished off by an overdose  in the old peoples home to release her bed - witnessing public auctions of the contents of the house I'd never actually come to terms with leaving - entirely altering the direction of my whole life for the worst.  I chose to do various types of therapy over a number of years - as I mentioned Inner Child, Willhelm Reich's Biodynamic body work etc and EMDR etc and a great deal of self awareness - plus doing a short Person Centred Counselling Course - I've learned to be good to myself - value my own achievements and being a far better mother than I ever had myself.

I told my sons that I was so sorry they didn't get the childhood that they should have had. 

I told my youngest that I was very sorry for telling him 'grow up' especially since he was forced to grow up too soon and I recalled him sitting holding my hand like the little hero he was while I lay there trapped in a multicoloured benzodiazepine straitjacket - I didn't want to lose my children to boarding school - they were my only witnesses - on the other hand the cocktail of drugs made me feel so ill and I'm certain 

 I'm not prepared to hand my power over to yet another therapist who may or may not be appropriate or have worked on themself enough or as much as I have

I wrote  an autobiographical account of the last 44yrs since my divorce -because this time of year resurrected anniversaries of loss. Not events that have all happened in the present!  As people have described such events -  like peeling an onion - bit by bit one sheds just a little more of the pain and grief that presents itself - one is never entirely over feeling unloved by one's parent.  It comes and it goes.

I'm able to rest when I need to and most importantly I'm in control of my own life -I'm no longer answerable to anyone  -(except the normal everyday expectations of the taxman, utilities and governmental dues )  

Nobody's forced to read all of what I write in one gulp! For heavens sake!  I managed to get through it surely to god others can read it and survive!!  I survived and I'm hear to tell the tale.

I'm no longer monitored as happened in childhood - I prefer to choose for myself what I do each day - when I get up or when I go to bed - if I leave or choose not to leave the house.  Not having to explain whether I've failed or succeeded in some task or other.  Freedom for me has been my most joyous achievement - nobody rings me up and expects me to justify what I've done all day.  No spouse arrives at the end of the day wondering why dirty clothes might be lying at the bottom of the stairs - or why dinner isn't ready. 

My responses to Anonymouse weren't all about his response to me  - But far more about his the subtly  cold post to Lynne - being another from UK like me-knowing the US has a very differnt mindset in a number of areas - I used to fear the opinions of others but not anymore -But just because someone says it doesn't make it so - Having survived what I saw and experienced in South Africa during Apartied and the shocking violence and racism of my parents nothing could ever be as bad as that - so really nothing anyone says really bothers me that much -But I will stand up for myself because  I'm extremely self aware - I was once lied about relentlessly and therefore I will insist on the truth being told especially when it's about me - They say that 10% of the world will always love you no matter what - and another 10% will always hate you no matter what - and the other 80% doesn't give a shit!   Well 10% of the world is enough for me so I'm heading in that direction!!

I was the very best mother as I strived to be inasmuch as the medical profession in all it's deluded grandiosity allowed -I certainly ensured the father of my children did NOT lay a hand on them - I'd bake bread, hot cross buns at the crack of dawn on Good Fridays - Xmas puddings, cakes - always ensured my sons were well fed and had the best education that were available - kept going and remained at my post till the bitter end because I could never abandon them as my mother repeatedly abandoned me - ensured my children knew where home was and cooked nice meals for their boarding school friends who'd come home for the day  three times each term - I ensured they got all what I never had - with an alcoholic mother it was impossible ever to take anyone home!

NObody's forced to read all I write - I write it for myself in the first place and if anybody cares to read then let them but I wouldn't want anyone to have a heart attack!!! Lol !!

I can assure you I still enjoy myself go to the movies cook myself nice meals - go out for a meal on my own - 

Like I said while writing the first blog - it was the anniversary of my grandmother's death (30yrs) The grandmother who'd had such high expectations of me - booked me into Art College, joined me up to play violin with Woodbridge Orchestra, and organised a RedCross concert where I was organised to sing and play in aid of the charity!  However she wasn't aware of the horrific time I'd had in the monstrous boarding 'school' run by a couple of closets - the violent female quack and her equally violent secretary, an ex mental nurse from the forties.  My grandmother had shared lessons with Princess Mary at Marlborough House because her brother was special equerry to Edward Prince of Wales (the King who abdicated) Granny was born in 1895 and youngest child of the Paymaster General during the First War.  Her elder sister married a soldier who returned wounded and appeared recovered then suddenly died of blood poisoning.   The brother Piers (Joey)Legh married a young mother of three, an American war widow Sarah Polk;  daughter of Judge Bradford of Woodstock Nashville Tennessee.  I only learned all of that after my grandmother died.  Her father was responsible for the repatriation and exchange of thousand of PoWs and initially expected to return the most senior combatants decided instead to pay to get them all back.  Some 800,000  according to war records.  I'm very proud of that fact and unlike today's politicians; refused to be paid for that job. His wife while accompanying her new husband's new job at the Paris Embassy in 1881 was the first portrait of an English lady painted by John Singer Sargent.  My mother seemed hellbent on disinheriting me at every turn.  Complaining that I ruined her life by being born it took till I was about forty to retaliate and tell her 'Well this was your mistake because I never asked to be born!!'  By the time I was 18 after years in exile and made to feel like I was the criminal when in fact my mother fitted the bill - I was finally allowed to go and live with my grandmother. It was the sixties and all I wanted was ' winkle pickers', miniskirts and Dusty Springfield eye makeup - she on the other hand insisted I should have brogues, camel hair coat and Elizabeth Arden and slapped my face.  Suddenly the place I'd always visualised as my one safe place disintegrated.  It was no different to what I experienced in London with my mother.   All I wanted was coffee bars, playing music on jukeboxes and the movies.  I didn't fit in a life of cocktail parties, young men with silver spoons hanging out of their mouths with their Oxbridge  accents - and the arrival of my two cousins soon convinced me - your mother's mad, your father's a jailbird  and you.....  well what they called me was so bad I blocked it out for years and was only reminded 30yrs later. 

I'm sorry that some would prefer to believe a person like myself having described a few life events  could not possibly have survived those abuses and still retains all of her marbles - the fact is I do - that's because I never denied what I went through or the pain - Alice Miller rightly warns those of us who prefer to remain in denial about the way we were treated in childhood are liable to replicate some or all of it on our own children.  The criminally prescribed Valium dulled my normal perceptions  through prejudice as proven in my notes - the monstrous Welsh psychiatrist who not only had a chip on his shoulder but a bleeding brick - was sticking up for the spouse - making me the sacrificial lamb - said of the discovered  first (known) infidelity 'Opened husband's letter from girlfriend 'Advised forget it or ignore it!'  I'd just been sterilised at just 24 and we'd moved from all the people I knew to a miserable town in Suffolk close to the ex's family - the mother-in-law who'd battered my face and head with my own Mason&Pearson hairbrush falsely accusing me of theft to distract from the prospective brother-in-law (later to sexually abuse all 3 of his baby girls) being carted off to borstal  -  February, March April are just hard anniversaries particularly this year my grandmother's miserable death exactly 30yrs ago 8 April - And Easter brings memories of my first discharge after 2yrs intensive surgery. Finding my grandmother's original letter in my hospital notes confirming I'd be going to live with her. But my mother had other ideas - and more importantly I served a purpose allowing her to claim additional income from the family trustees - But in one of their letters to her they pointed out 'There are some things that all  parents pay for their children!  She'd send them lists of every conceivable item - I recall the shame of reading aged around 14 her list included sanitary items! She did her best to annihilate me-that's what mothers who hate their daughters do - A well known fact that the mother/daughter relationship when it 's bad it's the worst. Like the queen bee needs to kill her competitors -'Better out than in!'  I share my truth and refuse to deny it -I'm emptying the brain of poisoning  repressed emotions and memories I'd been forced to withhold for my own safety - Like the body with an abscess that needs to be drained -I'm offloading and sharing my truth as a means of self validation - some call it "bearing witness" for the sake of those as yet not quite strong enough to do it for themselves.  For years nobody knew where I was or what was happening to me - now I'm making up for lost time as an only child! I am also  determined to disclose the truth and describe the pain on behalf of the ones who were also installed at the shocking so-called boarding 'school' by their criminal 'parent' figures - a place for the supposed 'maladjusted' which in fact was  run by the most maladjusted pair of violent harridans who drove some to suicide unable to escape - my mother criminally installed me for her own ends -  And for anyone else who finds themselves in such a place (((Hugs)))) to all you survivors - it's necessary to put yourself and your own well being and happiness first because sadly it's unlikely anybody else will.  

 

.  

  

April 4, 2016
12:19 pm
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LH
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Judith, it might be useful to remember that despite all her wisdom, Alice Miller was a horrific mother to her own son, continuing her abuse of him until her death. Awareness of abusive behavior, even deep understanding of it, doesn't guarantee that a person won't act abusively.

It sounds like you've had a horrible life. I commend you for the work you've done on yourself to get through it.

But it also sounds like the chaos in your current life is unending. Like Anonymouse, I was exhausted after reading it. Your defensive response to Anonymouse's response, plus your multiple rapid-fire posts immediately afterward, suggest that something Anonymouse said struck a nerve.

Please, show this thread to your therapist. See what they say. It's possible that some of the keys you need to be released from your pain are locked away where you can't see them, but others can.

April 3, 2016
8:29 pm
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judith
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Karen said
I'm 26 years old and I've been out of contact with my abusive parents for 2 years now, after having lived with them on and off from 15-21. I know I've made growth in the past two years that would not have been possible with them in my life, and am much happier without their influence. However, I am still often struck with the pain in my chest that I am ultimately fundamentally unloved and alone. It makes me feel like an alien. I wonder what people who do have their parents love feel like. I imagine their baseline emotions must be very different than mine. I wonder what I look like to them. I have two brothers, the older of which is similarly out of contact with our parents, so I'm fortunate to have a sibling who has a shared experience, even if we were isolated from each other in that experience. I've long since accepted that my parents cannot love me and attempted to move on. 

Yes Karen - it's incredibly hard to realise we've been unloved and alone - and it's not surprising that it hurts when the reality of where you've come from hits you again - I too have felt like an alien - being loved allows one to automatically believe and know one is lovable of course - because why would it ever occur that you're not loved if you were regularly told you're loved?

Karen said
I'm 26 years old and I've been out of contact with my abusive parents for 2 years now, after having lived with them on and off from 15-21. I know I've made growth in the past two years that would not have been possible with them in my life, and am much happier without their influence. However, I am still often struck with the pain in my chest that I am ultimately fundamentally unloved and alone. It makes me feel like an alien. I wonder what people who do have their parents love feel like. I imagine their baseline emotions must be very different than mine. I wonder what I look like to them. I have two brothers, the older of which is similarly out of contact with our parents, so I'm fortunate to have a sibling who has a shared experience, even if we were isolated from each other in that experience. I've long since accepted that my parents cannot love me and attempted to move on. 

Karen said
I'm 26 years old and I've been out of contact with my abusive parents for 2 years now, after having lived with them on and off from 15-21. I know I've made growth in the past two years that would not have been possible with them in my life, and am much happier without their influence. However, I am still often struck with the pain in my chest that I am ultimately fundamentally unloved and alone. It makes me feel like an alien. I wonder what people who do have their parents love feel like. I imagine their baseline emotions must be very different than mine. I wonder what I look like to them. I have two brothers, the older of which is similarly out of contact with our parents, so I'm fortunate to have a sibling who has a shared experience, even if we were isolated from each other in that experience. I've long since accepted that my parents cannot love me and attempted to move on. 

Karen said
I'm 26 years old and I've been out of contact with my abusive parents for 2 years now, after having lived with them on and off from 15-21. I know I've made growth in the past two years that would not have been possible with them in my life, and am much happier without their influence. However, I am still often struck with the pain in my chest that I am ultimately fundamentally unloved and alone. It makes me feel like an alien. I wonder what people who do have their parents love feel like. I imagine their baseline emotions must be very different than mine. I wonder what I look like to them. I have two brothers, the older of which is similarly out of contact with our parents, so I'm fortunate to have a sibling who has a shared experience, even if we were isolated from each other in that experience. I've long since accepted that my parents cannot love me and attempted to move on. 

That's our loss those words that one should have been able to take for granted - every child deserves to be loved and protected and valued - and that is what we're left with - Inner Child work is the task we're faced with - raising our own 'inner child' in the way it should have been way back - I only wish when i was bringing up my own children that there'd been therapy and info about domestic violence and the unacceptability of all of that - I just had no idea that a) I had choices and b) that I wouldn't be struck down by God for wanting out of my marriage !

To think back that I actually feared being  punished for wanting a divorce just shows how incredibly naive and unworldly I was in those days - Its so good that you've got so much more information these days about all of that -we're all lovable  - yes I know the feeling especially around Mothers Day and Xmas and all those 'family' days when it feels like the whole world around is celebrating together but we're out here alone - I've felt like a child with it's nose pressed up against the windowpane watching everyone all together - And now that my grandmother,grandfather, mother, father  and the rest of the family(being an only child' are all dead and gone at my age i still feel like an orphan.   It's something that society pushes on us - though there are many who appear to the outside world to be oh so loving and caring but behind closed doors it's a different story.  I wonder if you've come across author Alice Miller a world renowned writer/psychotherapist who wrote The Drama of The Gifted Child,  &  Breaking Down the Walls of Silence  & For Your Own Good - she opened the prison gates for me - gave me permission to condemn my mother's monstrous behaviour and the way she defended my father's violence saying he was 'ill and couldn't help it'  which in turn gave the message that I should make allowances for violent adult relationships - I was left with the message that my body wasn't worth saving which in turn led to me walking into and remaining too long in abusive/violent relationships - that is the danger of children being hit and nobody standing up and condemning it.  ((Hugs)) lots of love xx  

April 3, 2016
7:41 pm
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judith
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carolyn said
Anonymouse, these forums are for supporting and showing understanding and compassion.  You may think you are helping but your approach is rather harsh and presumptuous.  We are all hurting and feel bad enough about ourselves;  we do not need to be preached to by a stranger but need encouraging words.

Well Carolyn I've only just this minute seen your reply to 'Anonymouse' I have to say it's rare for anyone to be standing up for me - that's so kind of you - I've just written my response because this is the first time I've even read their views - I thought it was a bit presumptuous to be speaking for the masses when clearly it was a very embittered post - I can't help thinking it was either because I'd condemned hitting children and reported it or my damning comments about closets and what they put me through!  Whatever!   I couldn't give a shit basically- it seems they're pretty unhappy - I can honestly say that I do find happiness in certain things - singing, music (having been a musician /singer/writer) and really adore the movies - Hope you're doing Ok - I don't think we EVER really fully recover from losing parental love - my mother died unaware of her whereabouts and having changed her number by my 18th birthday - her behaviour was absolutely monstrous - to tell your child that you wished they'd died instead of their father and that 'nobody would look at her' is truly monstrous - but clearly she was as sick as a parrot!!  Alice Miller the renowned therapist /author opened the prison gates for me - gave me permission to condemn my mother's behaviour - She said 'Honour they mother and father - WHAT no matter what they did ?  No Way!'  If we don't condemn our cruel childhoods we are at risk of repeating similar on our own children as she rightly explained - to remain in denial risks repeating history and a revolving door (((Hug)))x

April 3, 2016
7:17 pm
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Judith
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Anonymouse said

Judith said
I'm now pretty disillusioned regarding these forums -  they don't really seem to be visited much 

I too had a highly abusive mother who I'm sure had designs on me - the dumped me in a boarding 'school' run by a couple of violent perverted closet gay females

My mother it then occurred to me was also closet and perhaps sent me

to that place in order to convert  me!   It didn't

My mother died somewhere I was unaware of her address - but even before that I'd been denied her phone number since the age of 18 

The upset and grief and distress all of her behaviour - the way I was treated at the 'school'  two boys killed themselves one by jumping off Beachy Head the other climbing halfway down another cliff while his brother was on holiday, overdosed and took 3 days to die 

Another who died crashing his motorbike while high on drugs  - I overdosed at the age of 14 when my mother took up with a stepfather and I was then installed in that boarding 'school' left there for a Xmas and also during summer holidays for my birthday - How did I get through all of what has been done to me - my sons since I got off the appallingly prescribed Valium after 15yrs of being effectively in a straitjacket - during which time I was incapable and unable to reach back to the past and unravel the causes of my trauma and suicidal depression - have backed away from me and don't want to know

I've given more than 22yrs of faithful service and cooked, cleaned and debased myself repeatedly apologising for a lot of stuff that wasn't my fault in fact - in order to try and change the atmosphere -

They have the impression that strong emotions e.g. crying  are  just not acceptable -

My oldest son's wife is of the same mind and un believably chastised me in my own home for crying ' Oh don't start crying now you're only trying to delay us!'  

At that point I'd endured a 2nd violent relationship that took 2yrs to kick him out of my own home - and had had my head battered against my hall wall and dragged the length of the house by my collar - trapped in my larder like an animal under the shelves having to grab a knife to defend myself 

On another occasion was locked out of my own home while he threw bowls of water at me from the kitchen window as I crouched like a stray cat on my own driveway.   At one point I'd sobbed down the phone to my son and his wife over what my neighbours were also doing (they including ex in-laws related to the father of my two children were running a hate campaign to try and drive me from the former matrimonial home- and it wasn't as though I'd taken it over without buying him out and providing him with his half - No it was to do with my having found out one of the ex's brothers had actually been in prison (I'd visited him unaware of the crime but taking it for granted he'd been thieving again) instead it was for sexually abusing ALL 3 of his baby daughters - the SHOCK and HORROR of being told and the worry that some of that family or indeed the ex had interfered with my sons -  It's the not knowing that now haunts me 

I got back from abroad to find my next door neighbour had YET AGAIN caused more damage to a clematis climbing on MY garage the outside wall stood on our boundary - the sloping roof facing her side where a lot of clematis had been growing has been totally ripped off and shoved over the top and bundled in a heap on the roof facing my side - before that it was my very large cherry tree that my youngest used to climb when he was about ten - it was clearly poisoned because a sapling grown beside this big tree was also stone dead - 

And before the cherry tree they'd slowly poisoned the virginia creeper that covered all of my garage and then once again while away that too was ripped off - she hates leaves in her garden!  But her behaviour resurrects other incidents - last year she called the Fire Brigade over a small bonfire burning garden rubbish - the Fireman who came into my back garden's immediate comment was 'Well this isn't going anywhere! - and 'It's blowing in the opposite direction!'

Before that her son in law had thrown a stone at my newly installed French windows and smashed one of the panes -  This was in retalliation for my taking matters into my own hands after years of obstruction and two blockages of our shared sewer under our shared manhole cover -

My garden being a foot lower than hers in the front garden the  caste iron heavy manhole cover had broken at the corner from my car passing over it - twice with blockages I was forced to pay for a plumber to clear the sewage - the 2nd time the plumber pointed out it was sand trickling through over time that had eventually reduced the sewer pipe opening- It was her son-in-law who'd made a bodge of the brick blockwork of her drive and front garden - placing some loose bricks over their half of the manhole cover under which he'd poured a thick layer of sand -and of course the sand due to the split in the manhole cover had gradually poured through over time  - So eventually in desperation I had someone come to install a new manhole cover and having it sited entirely on my side - Despite the neat job that was made of all of that and the replacing of the brick blockwork there was no thanks but smashing of my window - that occurred around 2011 -

Additionally I also had to put up with the humiliation of this woman screaming at me the day her son-in-law was carrying out the work on her brick blockwork driveway - I said that I wished they could've given me warning that it was going to be done in order to replace the damaged manhole cover where upon she yelled 'Look at you, look at yourself in the mirror what man would want you?'  I was so shocked all I could think of saying was ' Lilian when are you going to start behaving like  decent human being?' I could've said and perhaps should've 'Well your face will never launch a thousand ships that's for sure!!' 

Before that back in the 90s after getting shot of the 2nd violent man in  my house - those neighbours combined with the others living in the property adjoining  my semi detached home broke through my pantry window and removed my stereo separates plus the speakers -

They were all found bagged up in bin liners in the ex's aunt's driveway (living the other side of those neighbours in the adjoining house - she along with the ex inlaws have all that hidden agenda and of course this horrible creature in the unattached property whose late husband (not suprisingly topped himself back in 2003/4 by deliberately electrocuting himself while doing a job - it was only a couple of weeks before this I heard her yelling at him 'You know we can't stand the sight of each other!!'  In the newspaper following his suicide confirmed by an autopsy - she described their relationship as  'Soulmates'   

Soon after my divorce began he'd come onto my property under orders of course - because after a rare late supermarket shop around 9.30pm on a Friday night I'd forgotten to turn off my car radio - I heard a loud bang on my door  - opened it to have him sneer 'So what're you doing about this music then?'  As I stepped towards my car in my own driveway barely 3 ' from my doorstep he got there first wrenched the driver's door open then RAMMED it against my thigh - meanwhile her indoors who has to be obeyed was yelling ' You drove a whole family out - 

I'd rightly reported to social services hearing a blow inflicted through my party wall during domestic strife - and appeared from the sobbing toddler to have landed on her - it turned out the father was newly promoted to CID - I'm sure you can imagine what happened to me after that -  in fact the only decent policeman that attended the theft of my stereo separates he confirmed it wasn't me who'd driven out that family because they were already divorcing!  - that same night of this man's assault a boy came to my door saying he'd heard her shouting that I was 'having young boys in my house!'   so I told him he'd better make himself scarce as well - Having reported this police officer and due to the ex's cousin being high up in police transport division I was then subjectd to late night panda car visits intimidatingly suggesting my report to the social services was purely vindictive - which it wasn't 

This woman or rather 'creature' clearly needs help and obviously got bullied in childhood which has also turned her into an adult bully - but instead of dealing with her own unease and inability to cope with the partner's abrupt departure - distracts herself by trying to make my life as miserable as possible - but I've not responded to this last criminal act nor did I respond to her reporting my bonfire - But I think now I should erect CCTV to catch the culprit next time -  And if that wasn't all bad enough the next family that took over the adjoining property was soon 'befriended'  by the ex's aunt and soon I was being subjected to African parrots piercing screeching bird calls that turned into nearly 10yrs of intermittent psychological assault - the birds cages were stood right up against both bedroom party walls and would begin as early as 6am just before they went to work - I then allowed a Community Psychiatric Nurse start visiting purely to register to everyone that someone was actually stepping over my doorstep -I'd tried calling my eldest son only living about 1hour 20 mins away -- was sobbing down the phone but was cut off and then when I called back was constantly 'engaged' the phone operator confirmed the phone was left off the hook and I was so distraught and fearful after all that was being done to me they put me straight through to Samaritans -and Victim Support were of no help whatsoever - and of course police once you'v reported one of their lot you've nowhere to go!  Hence I got no support during a 3rd violent male's appearance here - desperately looking for some protection!   

Judith--

Your son estranged you because you are all drama, more drama, and yet more melodrama.  It's exhausting just to read, I can imagine your kids having to dealing with it.  

The problem is not your kids, your mother, your exes, your neighbors, the police, your boarding school.  The problem is you use drama the same way an addict uses drugs or alcohol--to avoid dealing with your own self.

please get therapy and understand the problems in your life are how you deal with decisions and your emotions.  

People cannot stand the amount of drama and blame and victimization you surround yourself with, and they wash their hands of you.  You are overwhelming.  

This is not uncommon for people who did not get adequate nurturing and love as a child.  They spend their lives unconsciously setting up scenarios hoping to be rescued, loved and nurtured.  But they never will be, because almost nobody can deal with that constant level of hysterical drama. It drains people of their very souls.  

Your sons can't save you; but they can save themselves, and you can learn to save yourself and to give yourself all that was denied you in childhood and learn to have a happier life.  And when you do that, your sons will come back.

Well considering your reply Mr /Ms Anonymous - is 1 April could it be an April Fool?  Whatever, at least I have the courage to write my own name and be who I really am - not very brave to come forward with such a judgmental attitude - I wonder if you're in the UK or USA - I never expected my children to 'rescue' me in fact I did my damnedest to save my children and remained in a godawful marriage to ensure their godawful father wouldn't/couldn't hit them - I've done 'inner child therapy' and EMDR and Body psychotherapy developed by Gerda Boyesen from Wilhelm Reich's original idea of unloading trauma from the body's muscle and tissue - SOOH sorry my words have 'drained' your poor fragile uncompassionate little soul - I do feel really sorry for you ! Clearly you can't possibly have experienced much in life if my moderate blog has caused you to get your knickers in a twist  - I'm really sorry  latest blog appears to you to be nothing but 'drama' and 'melodrama' rather than real life -My sons are in fact NOT totally estranged in the way you think I mean - my youngest was driven out of this country thanks to his paedophile father communicating with his ex wife's mother who was also from a violent background - Both of my sons I felt in order to save them from my depression which I didn't realise at the time was caused by the criminally prescribed cocktails of Valium etc - I sent them to the naval boarding school just 10 miles away us having been ex naval  personnel - in fact my whole childhood family contributed much to this country - aside from fighting in WW1 and WW2 my late great grandfather was Paymaster General  and responsible for repatriating and the exchange of all British PoWs for which he also refused to be paid (unlike present parliamentarians)  He refused to carry on negotiating with the Turks etc having taken part in Peace Talks in Berne - He also refused to pick the most senior military personnel but said he'd PAY to get them ALL back and this is what he did - according to documentation of that time some 800,000 were brought back - my grandfather was a Belgian trenches survivor -  my father a Dutch/Italian served in Royal Dutch Army in WW2 and my mother in the WRNS - and I was a naval wife - I also witnessed lynchings and beatings of black South Africans between 1948-'51 when my nylon dress caught light sustaining 3rd degree over more than 55% - I survived against all expectations and indeed wasn't even expected to have children never mind get married!!!

Sadly at the age of 18 my self worth was almost non existent - but after the multitude of therapy I've done that is changed quite radically- the reason for my last blog was written in the lead up and around Mother's Day, the anniversary of my grandmother's death (my only childhood home I'd struggled to get back to without success) the way she died through serious medical negligence - Easter being the anniversary of being dumped by my wonderful mother in foster care rather than allowing me back to my grandmother after a brief hospital discharge from 2yrs of agonising burns treatment/ surgery - yes it was VERY tough but I got through it despite having NO family visits - other patients would lend me their overflow which I didn't appreciate - I'd prefer none to having strangers - I note that Mr/Ms Anonymous you appear to be speaking for 'people' who cannot stand the drama - I think it's wiser to be writing from your own point of view rather than second guess other 'people' who you simply don't even know - and more than likely don't even agree with your spiel - might I suggest you read some of world renowned author  Alice Miller's 'The Drama of the Gifted Child and For  Your Own Good and other well known books - she rightly stated that those who remain in denial about their own rotten childhood usually shoot down and attempt to gag those who dare to tell their truth - is it possible that my condemnation of closet gays has got up your nose as well - or the fact that I condemned and reported the hitting of a child ? The night I wrote that blog I was mourning the loss of many years that me and my sons could and should have been allowed free of the ghastly Valium - as they say it's better out than in - my son rang me just two days ago after I sent Easter presents for my grandchild and asked if we might meet either 16 May or 24 when they return from a holiday in the Isle of Wight - I can congratulate myself on the amount of therapy I've done and enormous amounts of self development - I've been going Co-Da which if you're a 'yank' you're sure to know about plus Al-Anon and Adult Child of the Alcoholic - is it possible you're a dry one?  Whatever sorry that you didn't have the guts to own your own condemnations - but there you go as well known source once said ' A life Unexamined is Not Worth The Living Of!!  The Truth Shall Set You Free and it did me- The night I wrote those words I was having an anxiety /panic attack and feared my future -  sometimes everything can seem like it's piling in one - Its rather strange that I should've come back to look on this site for the first time after weeks of not bothering - I'm sure I'm a bit psychic - As I've said before I never expected my sons to 'save' me they're struggling with their own lives - one is a senior manager at the Queen's bank in The Strand in London and his brother is teaching English as a foreign language in Russia who I am worried about but I guess he'll sort himself out when he's got over the breakup with the girl he went out there for - like me he was done over by someone he got involved with because like me he has a kind and soft heart - we learn by our mistakes - both of my sons were actually my heroes - my youngest would sit holding my hand while i cried trapped in that  benzodiazepine strait jacket I'd unknowingly and trustingly allowed a quack to inflict on me - which in turn covered up my Post Traumatic Stress Disorder - How lucky for  me that my grandmother's geriatrician alerted me to her medical negligence and that I'd just begun dispensing prescriptions in a GP surgery where for the first time I got access to all the shocking drug data - warnings such as 'possible brain damage with long term use' and 'amnesia' which pushed me to self imposed 'cold turkey' withdrawal was agonising but I guess the pain from my accident prepared me - if I hadn't got myself off more than likely I would be dead  - It's a very long time since I ever rang my son sobbing down the phone the early 90s- that occurred shortly after I was nearly battered to death by the 2nd violent creature in my home - the father of my children tried to strangle me as I was kicking him out - and I'd no idea he had paedophilic tendencies according to a post mistress who complained he was 'obsessed with her little granddaughter' The police involvement was down to my ex's cousin also police and their efforts to discredit me before the fact that two of my ex's brothers were also paedophiles - which gave me the shock of my life fearing that my own children might have been touched by one of them - Not surprising when one remembers all of that around anniversary times that it briefly sends you off the deep end - In any case nobody's forced to read ALL of what I wrote - you can stop reading at any point - you response smacks of denial.

April 2, 2016
8:14 am
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carolyn
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Anonymouse, these forums are for supporting and showing understanding and compassion.  You may think you are helping but your approach is rather harsh and presumptuous.  We are all hurting and feel bad enough about ourselves;  we do not need to be preached to by a stranger but need encouraging words.

April 1, 2016
6:46 pm
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Anonymouse
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Judith said
I'm now pretty disillusioned regarding these forums -  they don't really seem to be visited much 

I too had a highly abusive mother who I'm sure had designs on me - the dumped me in a boarding 'school' run by a couple of violent perverted closet gay females

My mother it then occurred to me was also closet and perhaps sent me

to that place in order to convert  me!   It didn't

My mother died somewhere I was unaware of her address - but even before that I'd been denied her phone number since the age of 18 

The upset and grief and distress all of her behaviour - the way I was treated at the 'school'  two boys killed themselves one by jumping off Beachy Head the other climbing halfway down another cliff while his brother was on holiday, overdosed and took 3 days to die 

Another who died crashing his motorbike while high on drugs  - I overdosed at the age of 14 when my mother took up with a stepfather and I was then installed in that boarding 'school' left there for a Xmas and also during summer holidays for my birthday - How did I get through all of what has been done to me - my sons since I got off the appallingly prescribed Valium after 15yrs of being effectively in a straitjacket - during which time I was incapable and unable to reach back to the past and unravel the causes of my trauma and suicidal depression - have backed away from me and don't want to know

I've given more than 22yrs of faithful service and cooked, cleaned and debased myself repeatedly apologising for a lot of stuff that wasn't my fault in fact - in order to try and change the atmosphere -

They have the impression that strong emotions e.g. crying  are  just not acceptable -

My oldest son's wife is of the same mind and un believably chastised me in my own home for crying ' Oh don't start crying now you're only trying to delay us!'  

At that point I'd endured a 2nd violent relationship that took 2yrs to kick him out of my own home - and had had my head battered against my hall wall and dragged the length of the house by my collar - trapped in my larder like an animal under the shelves having to grab a knife to defend myself 

On another occasion was locked out of my own home while he threw bowls of water at me from the kitchen window as I crouched like a stray cat on my own driveway.   At one point I'd sobbed down the phone to my son and his wife over what my neighbours were also doing (they including ex in-laws related to the father of my two children were running a hate campaign to try and drive me from the former matrimonial home- and it wasn't as though I'd taken it over without buying him out and providing him with his half - No it was to do with my having found out one of the ex's brothers had actually been in prison (I'd visited him unaware of the crime but taking it for granted he'd been thieving again) instead it was for sexually abusing ALL 3 of his baby daughters - the SHOCK and HORROR of being told and the worry that some of that family or indeed the ex had interfered with my sons -  It's the not knowing that now haunts me 

I got back from abroad to find my next door neighbour had YET AGAIN caused more damage to a clematis climbing on MY garage the outside wall stood on our boundary - the sloping roof facing her side where a lot of clematis had been growing has been totally ripped off and shoved over the top and bundled in a heap on the roof facing my side - before that it was my very large cherry tree that my youngest used to climb when he was about ten - it was clearly poisoned because a sapling grown beside this big tree was also stone dead - 

And before the cherry tree they'd slowly poisoned the virginia creeper that covered all of my garage and then once again while away that too was ripped off - she hates leaves in her garden!  But her behaviour resurrects other incidents - last year she called the Fire Brigade over a small bonfire burning garden rubbish - the Fireman who came into my back garden's immediate comment was 'Well this isn't going anywhere! - and 'It's blowing in the opposite direction!'

Before that her son in law had thrown a stone at my newly installed French windows and smashed one of the panes -  This was in retalliation for my taking matters into my own hands after years of obstruction and two blockages of our shared sewer under our shared manhole cover -

My garden being a foot lower than hers in the front garden the  caste iron heavy manhole cover had broken at the corner from my car passing over it - twice with blockages I was forced to pay for a plumber to clear the sewage - the 2nd time the plumber pointed out it was sand trickling through over time that had eventually reduced the sewer pipe opening- It was her son-in-law who'd made a bodge of the brick blockwork of her drive and front garden - placing some loose bricks over their half of the manhole cover under which he'd poured a thick layer of sand -and of course the sand due to the split in the manhole cover had gradually poured through over time  - So eventually in desperation I had someone come to install a new manhole cover and having it sited entirely on my side - Despite the neat job that was made of all of that and the replacing of the brick blockwork there was no thanks but smashing of my window - that occurred around 2011 -

Additionally I also had to put up with the humiliation of this woman screaming at me the day her son-in-law was carrying out the work on her brick blockwork driveway - I said that I wished they could've given me warning that it was going to be done in order to replace the damaged manhole cover where upon she yelled 'Look at you, look at yourself in the mirror what man would want you?'  I was so shocked all I could think of saying was ' Lilian when are you going to start behaving like  decent human being?' I could've said and perhaps should've 'Well your face will never launch a thousand ships that's for sure!!' 

Before that back in the 90s after getting shot of the 2nd violent man in  my house - those neighbours combined with the others living in the property adjoining  my semi detached home broke through my pantry window and removed my stereo separates plus the speakers -

They were all found bagged up in bin liners in the ex's aunt's driveway (living the other side of those neighbours in the adjoining house - she along with the ex inlaws have all that hidden agenda and of course this horrible creature in the unattached property whose late husband (not suprisingly topped himself back in 2003/4 by deliberately electrocuting himself while doing a job - it was only a couple of weeks before this I heard her yelling at him 'You know we can't stand the sight of each other!!'  In the newspaper following his suicide confirmed by an autopsy - she described their relationship as  'Soulmates'   

Soon after my divorce began he'd come onto my property under orders of course - because after a rare late supermarket shop around 9.30pm on a Friday night I'd forgotten to turn off my car radio - I heard a loud bang on my door  - opened it to have him sneer 'So what're you doing about this music then?'  As I stepped towards my car in my own driveway barely 3 ' from my doorstep he got there first wrenched the driver's door open then RAMMED it against my thigh - meanwhile her indoors who has to be obeyed was yelling ' You drove a whole family out - 

I'd rightly reported to social services hearing a blow inflicted through my party wall during domestic strife - and appeared from the sobbing toddler to have landed on her - it turned out the father was newly promoted to CID - I'm sure you can imagine what happened to me after that -  in fact the only decent policeman that attended the theft of my stereo separates he confirmed it wasn't me who'd driven out that family because they were already divorcing!  - that same night of this man's assault a boy came to my door saying he'd heard her shouting that I was 'having young boys in my house!'   so I told him he'd better make himself scarce as well - Having reported this police officer and due to the ex's cousin being high up in police transport division I was then subjectd to late night panda car visits intimidatingly suggesting my report to the social services was purely vindictive - which it wasn't 

This woman or rather 'creature' clearly needs help and obviously got bullied in childhood which has also turned her into an adult bully - but instead of dealing with her own unease and inability to cope with the partner's abrupt departure - distracts herself by trying to make my life as miserable as possible - but I've not responded to this last criminal act nor did I respond to her reporting my bonfire - But I think now I should erect CCTV to catch the culprit next time -  And if that wasn't all bad enough the next family that took over the adjoining property was soon 'befriended'  by the ex's aunt and soon I was being subjected to African parrots piercing screeching bird calls that turned into nearly 10yrs of intermittent psychological assault - the birds cages were stood right up against both bedroom party walls and would begin as early as 6am just before they went to work - I then allowed a Community Psychiatric Nurse start visiting purely to register to everyone that someone was actually stepping over my doorstep -I'd tried calling my eldest son only living about 1hour 20 mins away -- was sobbing down the phone but was cut off and then when I called back was constantly 'engaged' the phone operator confirmed the phone was left off the hook and I was so distraught and fearful after all that was being done to me they put me straight through to Samaritans -and Victim Support were of no help whatsoever - and of course police once you'v reported one of their lot you've nowhere to go!  Hence I got no support during a 3rd violent male's appearance here - desperately looking for some protection!   

Judith--

Your son estranged you because you are all drama, more drama, and yet more melodrama.  It's exhausting just to read, I can imagine your kids having to dealing with it.  

The problem is not your kids, your mother, your exes, your neighbors, the police, your boarding school.  The problem is you use drama the same way an addict uses drugs or alcohol--to avoid dealing with your own self.

please get therapy and understand the problems in your life are how you deal with decisions and your emotions.  

People cannot stand the amount of drama and blame and victimization you surround yourself with, and they wash their hands of you.  You are overwhelming.  

This is not uncommon for people who did not get adequate nurturing and love as a child.  They spend their lives unconsciously setting up scenarios hoping to be rescued, loved and nurtured.  But they never will be, because almost nobody can deal with that constant level of hysterical drama. It drains people of their very souls.  

Your sons can't save you; but they can save themselves, and you can learn to save yourself and to give yourself all that was denied you in childhood and learn to have a happier life.  And when you do that, your sons will come back.

April 1, 2016
12:25 pm
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Karen
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I'm 26 years old and I've been out of contact with my abusive parents for 2 years now, after having lived with them on and off from 15-21. I know I've made growth in the past two years that would not have been possible with them in my life, and am much happier without their influence. However, I am still often struck with the pain in my chest that I am ultimately fundamentally unloved and alone. It makes me feel like an alien. I wonder what people who do have their parents love feel like. I imagine their baseline emotions must be very different than mine. I wonder what I look like to them. I have two brothers, the older of which is similarly out of contact with our parents, so I'm fortunate to have a sibling who has a shared experience, even if we were isolated from each other in that experience. I've long since accepted that my parents cannot love me and attempted to move on. 

March 30, 2016
10:33 am
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LH
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fred said

LH:

Our philosophies, thresholds of help, continuity and integrity of marriage vows, tolerance of emotional abuse, assumptions about written quandaries, respect for Dr. Coleman's theories, true meaning of this forum, and most assuredly speed reading, are polar.  I've had enough. Thank you for "certified" wisdom. Have a glorious day, afternoon, and weekend.

You do realize that "this forum" is the adult children's side, yes?

Our reading comprehension skills are also polar.

In any case, your difficulty seeing others' points of view shines out bright and strong. I tell you that people nowadays often stay married after one partner transitions, and you say my stance on the "continuity and integrity of marriage vows" is opposite your own? So you're for breaking said vows?

And you advocate breaking those vows even when the people involved want to stay married, and don't feel the anguish you yourself would feel in their place?

After repeatedly having this pointed out to you, you're still unable to imagine any response to a partner's transition other than pain and betrayal. You still assert that the daughter feels what you would feel, despite anything in the description hinting at that, and despite her parting from her mother because her mother expressed disapproval of her husband. You really can't see that not everyone feels exactly the same as you... or if they feel differently, then they're wrong.

Can you see how this may have contributed to your estrangement from your son?

 

 

(Don't worry, I know the answer is "No.")

March 30, 2016
9:34 am
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fred
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LH said

fred said 

You seem to be confused, I stopped talking to my son. I will always love him, and miss him. However, I refuse to accept his immature, abusive behaviour. My oldest kid has two masters, and a doctorate in Leadership Education.  All her degrees are from Ivy League institutions. My middle kid is a Vice President at a major bank. My man/boy was raised exactly the same as my daughters.  He has a choice, grow the hell up or he is going to lose his wonderful, supportive Mama, and his wonderful , supportive sisters. I've had enough! Enjoy your day, and thank your advice.

What is his immature, abusive behavior?

LH:

Our philosophies, thresholds of help, continuity and integrity of marriage vows, tolerance of emotional abuse, assumptions about written quandaries, respect for Dr. Coleman's theories, true meaning of this forum, and most assuredly speed reading, are polar.  I've had enough. Thank you for "certified" wisdom. Have a glorious day, afternoon, and weekend.

March 30, 2016
8:27 am
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LH
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fred said 

You seem to be confused, I stopped talking to my son. I will always love him, and miss him. However, I refuse to accept his immature, abusive behaviour. My oldest kid has two masters, and a doctorate in Leadership Education.  All her degrees are from Ivy League institutions. My middle kid is a Vice President at a major bank. My man/boy was raised exactly the same as my daughters.  He has a choice, grow the hell up or he is going to lose his wonderful, supportive Mama, and his wonderful , supportive sisters. I've had enough! Enjoy your day, and thank your advice.

What is his immature, abusive behavior?

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