You were terrific and now are part of our Sesame fun and furry family.
—
Get advice and support from others who are struggling with adolescent or adult children who won’t talk to them or who are always critical and rejecting; parents whose partners or ex-spouses interfere with their being good parents; learning to forgive yourself for parenting mistakes; adolescent or adult children who aren’t in line to create a successful life.
NPR: Tom Ashbrook interviews Dr Coleman and Kathleen Gerson on “Women Bringing Home the Bacon”
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Dr. Joshua Coleman is an internationally known expert in parenting, families, and relationships. He is Co-Chair of the Council on Contemporary Families and is a psychologist with a private practice in the San Francisco Bay Area.
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First time here. My son and his family were coming for a visit before they leave for 3 years in Japan. He wanted to spend the time with his dad at his dad’s house. I told his wife that I actually have two bedrooms for them to stay in and she couldn’t think fast enough so she said they would stay with me 4 out of the 11 days. When they came over for a dinner before they were to move in they said I needed to clean and make my house more ready for the kids. I still needed to vaccuum the main room rug. They did not come back for 2 days and then my son came and inspected my house. He took pictures of the baseboards and determined my house was filthy and unsafe for his children. So I, who always have put him first got treated with disrespect, rudeness and they stayed the entire time with his dad. I can not express how hurt and disappointed I am. The pain of being rejected is almost to great to bear. Then the fact that his father who is very self centered got all the time with my grandkids and I got only a very small amount of time with them and told I was unfit.
Judy, how awful for you to be treated like that. I read your post twice and maybe the ‘household inspection’ was a ruse to correct your daughter in laws rash agreement to come stay with you for a few days.
You say in your post that you have always put your son first. Maybe this could be why he disrespects you. When did you last stand up to him? What did you say to him when he inspected your house and said it wasn’t up to his standards?
Has he and his father always been close? What benefit is it to your son to spend all the time with his father and not share it with you?
Sometimes we have to stand back and take a real look at what is going on. Perhaps your son is obliged to spend all the time with his father, possibly in return for a favour or support at some time. Some parents are not above blackmail you know, and I’m guessing that you and your ex? are not on speaking terms.
I know what I would have done if this was me, but I’m not you so you will have to search your own heart as to the best way to deal with this. One thing is for sure, begging for forgiveness or showing you are needy will only drive him further away.
I only know one thing, our dearly beloved children can turn into someone unrecognisable. It is they who have changed and not us.
I wish you the best of luck in resolving this heartache, because that is what it is. None of us deserve to be treated like we have and are, but our kids seem to have this self righteous attitude that its all about them. Well it isn’t. Keep your chin up and stand proud.
tc Anne
I don’t know about the whole ruse thing. My daughter claimed that my house was too cluttered, dirty, and unsafe for her children. A few weeks ago she tried to take it all back because she wants me to resume my marathon childcare for her because her “in-laws are too sick and old.” There may be clutter, but what about unconditional love? My house is not a health hazard. She has smashed my heart in a million pieces.
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YES! Shattered Dreams by Larry Crabb is an excellent book. It is wonderful and a great thing for anyone here to read in dealing with the ultimate shattered dream, having your child turn their back on you. I too must daily remind myself to turn them over to God. I pray the prayer that Samuels mother prayed over him, from the Bible….with respect to Scripture i sometimes change a few words to fit my situation.
“Lord, for this child I have prayed and you, Lord, have heard. Protect, guide, and heal their hearts and our relationship. I thank You! You gave him/her to me…and I give him/her to you….all the days of their lives.”
I look forward to reading comments in the new forum…
Judith, Jill and others – reading your stories mirrors mine, only I have a son who is unbelievably mean and I seriously think he doesn’t really know anymore why he hates me so much but when his wife and her step mom keep telling him how terrible I am, he has come to believe everything they say. This year I decided that I would turn him TOTALLY over to God. Every time I get a thought to try a new approach, i.e. with email, card, etc., I remind myself I cannot do that since I made a commitment to let go and that has helped. Will we ever have him back in our lives? Probably not but for the first time in almost 3 years, I feel I can move forward. This is a perfect time to remind ourselves we have worth and will not accept anything but love from these wayward “adult-in-training” children.
Judith, I am in a very similar place to you. So much of what you write, I have felt or do currently feel.
God does give me a few glimmers of hope here and there. While it’s hard at times for me to hear my friends talk about their great relationships with grown daughters–I have found they find it hard for me to talk about my relationship with my sweet husband. That may not be the case for you, but there’s probably something in your life, they could almost be jealous of.
My therapist just had me read “Shattered Dreams” by Larry Crabb. It gives me positive ways to use my pain. It’s just nice for me to find some meaning in all this that is so senseless to me.
This is my first post here. I am no expert. Those are the things that are helping me right now.
I continue to find encouragement on this site–I am very thankful for it.
Thanks, JillB.
I don’t think I will have any peace from this. I am reminded of what I’ve lost whenever I speak with my good friends. I AM jealous of the love they and their children share. It DOES hurt to hear about the visits, phone calls, etc.
My friends, who are enjoying their adult children and grandchildren, know what has happened to us and understand the deep hurt. I encourage them to go on and talk about their kids and grandkids–but, my closest friends–my true “girl friends” know that they could never “just get on with it” and so they watch their words, often times.
It is so very difficult when there is just one child.
I truly wish you luck with your daughter.
Judith
Judith, its how we are made. Mothers usually just dont forget their children, even if those children walk out of their life or are cruel to the ones who have loved them most. I dont have a good answer. other than to say that prayer and God have given me a sense of peace….i still hurt, terribly…but I know I didnt cause it and cant cure it. Its like I have reached a place of acceptance…what will be will be. I still pray for healing with my children. My daughter lost her job a few weeks ago and has been calling me some. I lost my job almost a year ago. So we are in the same boat in a way. She will blow up and become angry if i say ANYTHING that she doesnt want to hear. When that happens i quickly hang up. I remember the happy bright little blonde haired girl she was….and what she is now. Full of herself, self centered, angry….. Its the hardest thing in the world. Know you are not alone in this, there are many of us out here. God bless.
I do think it helps to do the sort of thing that you have done and I have as well. I have “divided” my child into two separate individuals. The child and then whatever this is she has turned into. The child I can remember and feel free to love with all my heart. This other thing I have to stay away from–until she is ready to reunite with me and the little child she once was.
Dear Jill B and Friends:
Jill–Thank you for your thoughts on seeking out a mediator. I am quite sure that you are right: our daughter would never allow it. And, yes, she does think that she is right all of the time.
I have been told to give up and write her off. For many reasons, I cannot seem to be able to do this or “move on”.
Jill, and those of you who have even the tiniest bit of contact with your adult child–I would give my right arm to be in your shoes. But, in truth, when our daughter was called by us after some years of no contact at all, to inform her of her dog’s illness (and death), she became ill-tempered and vicious towards me and tried to cut me down in 2-3 sentences. So, as this is something I will not tolerate from anyone, any calls from her–any contact–would be so hurtful to me that there would be no use in hearing from her.
My husband wants nothing to do with her, at all! So, what is wrong with me that I still want her in my life, even though I am acutely aware of how destructive that would be?
Prayer and Therapy have not helped me. I cry every day and feel that I have had my heart ripped out by my own flesh and blood.
Does ANYONE have any suggestions?
Judith
My husband and I are leaving in the morning for two months in the south and west. We have made a pact to focus on each other and give the family stuff a rest.
I know our daughter will never admit that she has any responsibility in the past events. She is not anyone I know and I admit I would not select her to be my friend. Not allowing us to see our grandson is so cruel after we were in his life on a regular basis for over 15 years. What does this teach him about life?? Discard people who do not agree with you or even discard people who have loved you forever.
Pray for all of us that some peace comes into our lives.
Judith….mediation would be good but most likely they would never agree to it. In their twisted way of thinking, everyone is wrong but them. If you could get her to go it would be good. Mine would never go to counseling or anything like that, for in their mind nothing is ever their fault! An update: my daughter lost her great job. She said it was unexpected and a surprise but i think she was goofing off at work. She was taking off every Friday to go see jailbird boyfriend. It will be interesting to see what happens now. She suddenly has NO money (i will NOT give her any!~!)..she lives with her Dad, my ex. We are talking at this point some. I will not put up with disrespect and at the first sign of a sarcastic tone or anything like that, I say “i have to go, bye” and hang up. I just wont put up with it.
dear doctor
i lost my husband 2 yrs ago. married 52 years. i now live with my daughter and my 3 grandkids who i love very much. my daughter is divorced and her ex is saying i cant help her with my grandkids. i cant even take them to the school bus stop. what can i do
thanks
JillB and Friends:
This is Judith, who posted on Jan. 7th. (Thank you, Jill, for responding.)
It is obvious that our daughter has tremendous anger, mostly towards me. Also, she may be influenced by persons who have some agenda to keep her estranged from her family.
In light of this information, I have been giving a lot of thought to working with a “mediation expert”. Of course, our daughter would have to be a willing participant and that is unlikely. But, has anyone had experience with mediation with regard to estrangement?
Please let me know your thoughts.
Pardon me for just jumping in and not responding to anyone in particular. I’ve been reading the comments here and just wanted to say thank you for making me feel less alone. My husband and I have one child, a 24-year-old daughter. Although she is in my life, I keep waiting for her to one day tell me to get lost and out of her life. She can be so sweet and dear, but when she’s stressed, anxious or depressed, I suddenly become “unsupportive” and the cause of all her problems. I’m drained from years of feeling like she has me on a roller coaster. Sometimes I just want to be left alone, and yet the pain of thinking that she may be lost to me forever is so intense. I know that I’ve made mistakes as a parent, but I also know that I’ve been loving and supportive to the best of my ability, which, because I’m human, is limited. I feel afraid for her because I know she is in pain. I don’t know if there’s anything more I can do. I also don’t know if I can emotionally and physically take it anymore. Thanks for listening.
This blog and Joshua’s book were a godsend to me and a pivotal place for me to begin my healing process while my son was estranged from us. It was that place to read and sort things out during the dark hours -the ones we all experience. The blog was safe place to put it all out there. We all had shades of the same problem. It was comforting but it didn’t really challenge me to change my behavior.
When I slowly began to share my family situation with friends and coworkers, I found people who were quite compassionate. I tried not to become overly focused on my problems and let the estrangement define me. As a result so many people opened up to me about similar situations. Some people gave me great support and encouragement. Others gave me blunt advice-not always easy to hear. Actually, they turned out to be the most helpful because they made me change. In the end, I also learned how to be a better friend and a better listener myself. I guess what I am trying to say is that reaching out on a website is good and reaching out in person also good. A little bit of both gives balance.
Judith, my heart hurt so for you when I read your post. It isnt your fault. your adult daughters behavior IS NOT YOUR FAULT. Like you , I tried to fairly discipline, nurture, provide opportunities, took them to church, taught them to pray and trust God….only to have her turn into a pill popping liar with tendencies to violence (yeah i have been punched and kicked and bitten and head butted) sarcastic, disrespectful…i could go on but you know what i mean. I dont know why this happens. It sounds like your daughter is influenced by negative people, so is mine. WHY they allow it , I dont know. They are bright and intelligent and turn their backs on the parents they know will always be there for them. I cannot explain it. I pray over my two children every day, asking God to take them, care for them, and to turn their hearts to Him, the ultimate healer. At this writing my daughter is in another city with her jailbird boyfriend, having missed work again this week to be with him. She is beautiful, has a great job…and is about to toss it all out. And i am dirt to her. I go on with the help of God! Blessings to you.
JillB
I feel I am making progress when I hear news about our daughter inviting other members of my family to birthday parties and we are not invited any more. My other daughter called this evening and told me they had met with her sister, husband and our grandson to celebrate our two sons-in-law’s birthdays in November. At first I felt the deep pain crawl in but was able to immediately realize that I had no control over these events. I owe it to my dear husband to remain in a good moment so that our lives are not affected by our daughter’s hatefulness.
I know now that our daughter has serious mental issues and we will probable never be reconciled with her or our grandson.
Sad but I have not power over her actions only my own.
I pray that God will show me the way every day to not lose myself in my daughter’s illness.
Joshua and Others:
You may remember my plight from my various posts about two years ago: I have been very happily married to a wonderful man for 30 years. We had a daughter, 27 years ago. She was the light of our lives, our only child and we loved her dearly. We did not spoil her, though, and she was a sweet little girl.
She had some emotional problems (night terrors, hallucinatory migraines) and we tried to get her through those awful times.
She was very bright and extremely creative, but kind of slacking off as a student. I was pretty tough on her about that, as I knew her choices would be limited if she didn’t get serious, and my husband and i didn’t want to see her flipping burgers when we knew she could be capable of much more. She was in the Gifted classes from third grade on….but, we didn’t know just HOW gifted she was. I mention this because it is important to the story. We tried out best to support her talents–even as a little girl, sitting and drawing with her, encouraging her to “create”, write poetry and stories, read her stories every night or made up stories to tell her before bedtime, until she could read to her self…and sent her to Duke Young Writer’s Camp twice…and, I even remember watching Sesame St. and Mr. Rogers with her on my lap–actually “discussing” the alphabet or issues at hand.
She eventually got serious, ended up with decent High School grades and very good SATs–good enough to get her into Emerson College in Boston. She did very well, there. We were so proud of her accomplishments.
During High School, we had a lot of “Mother/Daughter” head butting. Our hormones were acting up at the same time….and, I did not let her “get away” with anything. She wanted to wear torn clothes to school and boys combat boots, and many times rolled out of bed and into her clothes–looking like a real slob.
My husband and I did not allow her to leave the house that way. Months later, we found out that she stuffed her “rags” into her knapsack and changed into them at school. She even wanted to go to her Prom, dressed as a Clown. We wouldn’t allow it. I suppose that some will say that we stifled her creativity and self expression. I know that’s exactly what she and her friends/peers NOW think we did–but, as parents, we could not justify letting our child go off to High School in torn, tattered clothing and looking disgraceful. Even though we ae now being punished by her for “parenting”, I would do nothing different.
Back to College. We got along well throughout her Emerson years and I was so glad that she seemed to mature, take education seriously, develop a work ethic –even though she was miles away. We live in the South.
But, something dreadful happened after Emerson and during the next year–the year prior to Grad School. She was working as a teacher and living on her own with roommates in Boston. She had met a fellow and was also getting involved with a program called “Beyond IQ”–where she would lecture to “The Gifted” at various Conferences, run by an older guy who is apparently gifted and thinks the world of himself and other brilliant people….only.
She had been accepted to Harvard Grad School of Education. We were so thrilled for her and knew that she would get a great education, there. We also knew that it would be terribly expensive, and offered to help her out, financially, with what little we had. We had just lost our business and our investments, and we were supporting, on our own, my husband’s Mother who had Early Dementia and my brother who is Mentally Retarded. (She was getting a scholarship, a loan and we would pay the remaining third.)
So, we flew up to Boston to see her and give her a check. But, she was just awful to me–giving me “looks”, smart mouthing me, and refused to pose for one picture with me in front of Harvard. Oh well. But, after one or two days had passed with her ugly attitude, the worst was yet to come early on the second evening.
Outside of Cambridge Sq., somewhere near Harvard, and in front of a million people waiting for various buses–my daughter laid me out flat. Completely unprovoked, she told me what a horrible mother and parent I had been to her her whole life, that I was just the worst person on earth and how she now had a Surrogate Family. (My husband was so shocked at her venomous words, that he was unable to speak). I was crying and gasping. she continued screaming hideous verbal barbs at me and then sneered, “Where’s my check for Harvard?” I said: Let your Surrogate family pay for it….and I walked away.
My husband and I flew home and haven’t seen her since.
After several months, I got up my nerve and called her, after writing several unanswered letters. During the phone call, she refused to talk to me, but told my husband that she never wanted to see us again. And, she changed her Cell phone so that we could not call her, changed her email so that we could not write to her and had moved, leaving us without an address.
My heart was aching, naturally. I didn’t know if she was dead or alive…how she was doing, etc. I couldn’t understand her attitude, her rejection, her completely cutting us off. What had happened?
My husband and I tried to contact a few of her Boston friends and colleagues, with no luck. I searched out that Beyond IQ Gifted Conference Fellow, and actually spoke with him. He spoke down to me because I did not raise my “very gifted” child with kid gloves, make sure that she was treated differently than all other children and that I had done the unthinkable–used traditional parenting methods…didn’t I know better?
Two days after speaking with this man, my husband and I received Restraining Orders from our daughter, banning us from my daughter’s Harvard Graduation, banning us from attending the Gifted Conference (which is open to the public) and banning us from Boston–literally!
Well, after THAT tore us apart, emotionally and physically (my husband will NEVER be the same man–he was so humiliated)–that’s when I first posted on this page.
My heart has not stopped bleeding and now it is even worse: In September (we have now been estranged for over 3 years), our daughter’s dog, whom she left in our care 8 years ago, got very ill (kidney failure, Cushing’s Syndrome, etc.) and was dying.
I decided to bite the bullet and call my daughter. I had only one number–the first school that she taught at. She was no longer there, but they kindly provided me the next school–something more elegant with tons of rich, brilliant girls.
I called her and although she was silent, I told her that her dog was dying. She called me the next day to see how the dog was. The dog had died. Two nights later, our daughter called and talked to my husband and me, on her dime, for over two hours–as if nothing had happened between us….the conversation was amiable but not overly friendly. I didn’t trust it. I didn’t trust that she “was back”.
She seemed very concerned about her father who was having surgery in two days. She called several times to see how he was, and she called to attend the dog’s burial, during which we all said special goodbye’s to our fur child.
Our daughter gave us two phone numbers, two emails and promised to keep in touch, and my husband said that he was sending her attachments of photos of our dog’s last days.
Over 3 1/2 weeks, two emails with attachments went out–unanswered…prompting two phone call messages, unanswered.
So, I called her school, during a lunch hour and just left my name and number with the receptionist. One half hour later, the phone rang and this is what I heard: i HAVE BEEN STRUGGLING WITH WHETHER OR NOT I SHOULD ALLOW YOU AND DAD BACK INTO MY LIFE. BUT YOU RUINED IT BY CALLING MY SCHOOL. YOU ARE WORTHLESS AND IF YOU EVER CALL ME AGAIN, I WILL SEND YOU ANOTHER RESTRAINING ORDER!
I have been crying, again, ever since that call. I knew not to trust her recent “friendly” communications with us.
Does it seem to any of you that she has a Borderline Personality Disorder–that she is being adversely influenced by this “Gifted Conference Planner or her peers? Or, all of the above?
Please let me hear what any of you have to say. We love our daughter immensely,and our hearts are ripped open, but how much can a parent take? We truthfully did nothing to deserve this punishment.
Judith
Margaret,my daughter is also in the company of people she formerly couldnt stand. in fact, she is engaged to one. My contact with her at Christmas was handing her a gift in the parking lot of a bar where she was stagering drunk with her fiancee, a young man fresh from the state pen. She is going to quit her wonderful job and move to another city to be with him. She does very well at her jobs but changes ever few years. I will never understand this, although I accept I can do nothing about it (except pray, for I believe God change things). I have no way to contact my son at all. I bought him a cheap cell phone for Christmas and took it to him in hopes of some contact. He returned it and got the cash instead. So much for that idea. It seems to help a bit if i totally pull away from them. I dont call, text, email or anything and I seem to have a bit more contact. Its almost like a game and life is too short for games……Its tough each day but i’m trying to have a life despite all this. God bless
I retired two years ago at age 59, on top of the world, happy that my 34 y/o daugher (married with 3 wonderful sons) and 31 y/o cognitively disabled son (happily settled in an adult family home setting) were happy and well set, and thinking life was great. After having had what I thought was a close relationship, out of the blue my daughter suddenly stopped talkiing to me and started treating me like I was just some inconvenience in her life. When I confronted her about it I got a tongue lashing of accusations and descriptors I didn’t even know the meaning of (what the heck was emotional blackmail!!), and an itemization of every parenting misstep I made since she was 5 years old. In my completely, shell-shocked state, I reacted defensively, and in all the wrong ways, and now two years later, even after counseling with her, and independently for myself, things are civil, at best, on our holiday only encounters. Our whole family has been devastated by this. I never claimed to be the perfect parent and have confessed and apologized for my real mistakes as well as those I didn’t even know about. Nevertheless, there are people(including some of her own friends) who would have given their right arms to have had the life, opportunities, and, yes, even the parenting, she had. I’ve been to more counselors, and read more books (some good like Chapman’s 5 Love Languages, and some that shouldn’t have been published, like Secunda’s When You and Your Mother Can’t Be Friends) than I care to think about. When Parent Hurts has truly been my salvation. Realizing I still have work to do, I know I am in a far better place today than I was last year at this time because of it. I carry it with me like a “Bible”, read passages before I go to sleep at night, and just wish there was more of it.
I also found out from my sister that our daughter has changed jobs again. Now she is a high school psychologist.
This is three job changes in the past year.
Interesting events today. Our daughter did not contact us at all this Christmas. Today we received a card from her Mother-in-law.
She told us that her son and our daughter and son were at their home in another state after Christmas. This is the Mother-in-law our daughter never stopped criticizing to us. These are the brothers-in law who use drugs, spend big dollars on porn and who our daughter never wanted her son to be around.
We were also informed that our daughter had an old friend of mine meet here in that state. This old friend was also heavily criticized by our daughter in the near past. She always told me that this friend was too fat and smelled really bad. I had to chuckle in the midst of my sadness that our daughter actually spent Christmas in the company of people she has despised.
I will never understand this!!
Ellen,
My heart is happy for you and your son.
Congratulations, Margaret, you’re on the right path. Like you, for two and a half years I had to find my way to a more peaceful and meaningful life without my son. It wasn’t easy in the beginning. The more that I did for and with others, the better that I felt.
When our son re-entered our lives this Sept I wasn’t sure that we would make it till Christmas. He had a lot of issues to deal with-esp anger. He has since been in counseling, his divorce was finalized in early Dec and DWI issues will soon be resolved. He no longer blames his wife for all the problems, and he talks about his own bad choices and impulsive behavior. He is calmer, healthier and able to recognize his strengths and he has goals for the new year. He is reconnecting with family and making amends.He is also in a good living situation-which really helps. So here I am at Christmas -I can’t figure it all out just yet. But I am truly happy for what I have been given -peace.
Happy New Year
We are each taking our paths to a peaceful life. My holiday was peaceful because I was able to practice some meditations that greatly helped to keep my mind focused on “what I have” and not “what I do not have”. Every morning I took time to immediately list my blessings. My loving husband, my warm home, food in the refrigerator, good health, family members who love me and friends who are supportive and understanding.
I was able to listen to family members who are less fortunate and have sad situations and not jump immediately to try to solve their problems.
I am on a journey and will do my best to be kind to others and kind to myself.
I pray for the strength to continue these practices in my daily life.
Aida i am in the same situation as you in many ways. i only have one child. she is now 29. i haven’t seen or heard from her in years. in the beginning my shrink said the same thinmg about my x as your X. he did the same thing when she was 14 & overnight everything became my fault. i have experienced parential alientation to the extreme. 15 years ago no one knew about parential alientation. i have learned that there is nothing you or i can do. i have cried and begged and even apologised for things i didn’t do to make peace. all in vain. i have sat home alone for years and just waited for her to stop in. all in vain. i have stopped living over the grief i have been through over her. i wasn’t even invited to her wedding then i had a break down over the rejection i have expereinced over my daughter. i have lost everything i ever work for ( my home, my job ) because my focus was always on the grief i felt over her rather then my own life. family and friends alike don’t understand. i have had one serious illness after another because of this. the more i try to fix things the futher she ran away. i have spent all holidays alone because being around people with children, even adult chridren, just seeing them hurts so bad. i have become a hermit because it hurts so bad. Amy Baker, an adult child of parential aliention wrote a book called adult chrildren of parential aliention, i suggest you read it. I suggest you stop trying. the more you try the more power it gives your children. in a sick sad way they enjoy the pain that you are feeling. you have no value because they know you will be there no matter what. the more you tell them your door is open to them the less likely they will come through it.
it took me 15 years of letters, e-mails, gifts that were never acknowledged to figure out if what you are doing to fix things doesn’t work, then stop doing it. they are living their lives with no regard to you. you need to live your life with no regard to them. ( easier said then done). I live in PA, my daughter in california. i do not have her address or phone number. I could have grand children, and not even know about it. i have allowed this situation to control every aspect of my life and it has got me no where. I sat home alone last night knowing full well that i won’t see or hear from her, yet i bought gifts and had the phone by my side even as i slept, just in case she would finally come around. don’t become me.
i did get to see my kids yesterday…i am a bit amazed that i did. i went to my sons and had dinner. i had bought his girlfriends little boy Christmas gifts, having been led to believe the little guy wouldnt have a Christmas if i didnt. this was not the case of course….we had a fairly good visit but i felt used (unemployed and buying them Christmas…they both work..)….after more than half a dozen phone calls my daughter and her boyfriend met me at a restraunt (she was calling…lets reschedule, come on and meet us, dont come now…etc…childish games)..i finally arrived to find her falling down drunk….beligerent, rude, embarassing…I know that much of our problems come from the fact that I am a victim of parental alienation syndrome. This seems so common with many of us hurting parents……their father is a sick man, very subtle and cruel……..its Christmas Eve and I feel a little blank. I will be alone on Christmas for the first time in my life. I know that the Savior whos birth I will celebrate is with me. and that is my hope and my peace. may God comfort our hearts. may He heal our childrens hearts to return them to us. may we find a brighter tomorrow and live in peace….in Jesus name…..Merry Christmas everyone
Aida,
The fact that your ex has narcissistic and antisocial personality disorders and that at least one of your daughters is very close to him now suggests that Parental Alienation may be at least part of the picture. When your daughters began to act out, he may have taken the opportunity to get them back in his life by alienating them from you. It’s often hard to recognise Parental Alienation when it happens to older teens because many of the common symptoms are best seen in families where younger children are supposed to be visiting the target parent and the alienator is obviously impeding. An older teen is more likely to just gradually cut you out of her life and then send nasty letters when you try to find out what you did wrong.
My sincere sympathy, and let us know how it goes.
Irene
Lin, Thank you so much for your kind words, I feel nourished from your response. I have read and re-read all the blog entries trying to find a similar thread that I could weave together in to some understanding with my two daughters. What I hear is good parents that have made normal mistakes, needing understanding from their adult children that they are not perfect people. That they have their own regrets in their parenting styles, or what they thought or did during a curve in time in their children’s lives. Parenting is not easy, I hope all adult children would come to an understanding about this. We try our best, we slip up, we do things we regret, but our love goes on for them, unconditionally. My own two daughters were physically, emotionally, and financially abusive to me, yet all this is history for me. I love them so much, I want the very best for them, however I no longer want to be assaulted, or have crazy making done to me, and I don’t want to be forced to give them money. I would love to see them, enjoy the day over a lunch, chatting about our present lives. I wrote to each of them two years ago, “let’s enjoy this present day, forgiving each other, and being healthy adults. Life is short when you consider the bigger picture. All families have ups and downs, lets go forward as a family, we can see a therapist, and weave together a new tapestry for our family.” The emails in return were terrible, filled with anger, bitterness, and rejection. They blamed me for becoming a social worker, they think I should have been a doctor to hep them financially. They tell me I am a looser for being a Christian, that religion is 2,000 years old, that I need to choose something better than this. They think my life is empty because I don’t party….and on and on goes there complaints about me. I have parted from them for one year and my heart is filled with less pain. I miss them so much. But as I reach out to speak with safe people, even this web site, I am amazed that I am encouraged to wait for them to return. There is wisdom here. Thanks for listening. I sincerely hope that all parents that have children no longer with them will be able to experience peace and contentment, until their adult children return. Merry Christmas.
Margaret – I agree with you totally and feel the same way. My son isn’t the one I raised; he is a stranger fighting a world of demons in his mind. And his absence at our Christmas Day table will not lessen for us, his family, how thankful we are for the blessing of not only the day but our lives and those in it.
Happy Holidays to everyone. Our traditions have changed but change does not mean the meaning of Christmas is different.
Somehow I have achieved a sense of peace. When I think of our daughter now the thought does not create pain. In fact I have a very neutral feeling toward her. It is weird to try to understand this lack of sentimentality.
This is not the girl I raised or knew for years. She is a stranger who seems to be self involved and abstract.
I pray for all of us everyday.
Aida – your story pains me. Our son closed the door on his family in Sept. 2007. My sister recently saw him and he still holds anger for something but he doesn’t know what. I have let him go. He knows where we live, he knows we love him and finally I can take a deep breath and say, the problem is his and his alone to resolve. My other son receives and gives love, time, etc. It isn’t fair to him to have to see me grieve over the loss of my other son. Same with you. Don’t let your grief over your 2 older daughters take away from what you have with your youngest daughter. Leave them alone; they will be back. I know they will. They will be back before my son will; it is the nature of the female spieces. Eventually they will wonder what is going on with you and your youngest daughter and feel left out and return. In the meantime, it is hard but concentrate on your younger daughter without smothering her but just enjoying your time together. Merry Christmas.
I am sitting here tonight with tears running down my hot cheeks feeling like a bad mother. It is another Xmas with no hope of speaking or seeing my two older daughters. They are incredibly dear to me, I love them soooo much, my heart aches for them. I was divorced in 1996 by a man who told us all that he no longer wanted to play family. So out the door we were forced to go. We never regretted leaving, since there was extreme abuse of all of us. The three girls were so brave. We went through counselling, in which I began to take responsibility of not protecting my three girls enough. I have deep regrets. They said at that time they forgave me and understood the situations we were all experiencing from their dad. We had very close relationships for the first three and a half years. I was amazed how well we survived, finding good housing, pursuing education then supporting my three daughters very well. He had no contact with us for seven years. Then one day he began to send cards blaming us for leaving him. He blamed me for not being stronger and for not being more forceful with him. Frankly, I remember when the psychiatrist wrote a letter to the courts when we were divorcing stating he has severe narcissistic personality disorder and anti-social personality disorder. I didn’t take his words seriously, although I was afraid of what he would do if he found us. The girls refused to see him. The two older girls began to drink alcohol, began to walk away from a healthy life style, they were stealing from me and our home. The eldest understood that I needed boundaries in our home. We mutually agreed she would leave home and have a place of her own. For the next few years she could not keep full time employment, I helped her financially. My middle daughter began to run with gangs. She refused to go in to counselling, citing that everything was my fault. I started counselling again to get perspective on what was happening. She eventually was hospitalized twice with alcohol poisoning. She began taking drugs. Soon she was physically abusing her younger sister and myself. We tried desperately to get her into counselling but she refused. She was now 21 and I discerned that it was time to ask her to clean up or to leave. She chose to leave, blaming me all the way. In the first two years we spoke on and off and I e-mailed the majority of the time to check in and remind her she has a home to come to. She remained incredibly nasty, screaming and yelling, slamming the phone. Frankly we never really had any conversation. At some point each daughter went back to their dad. They found him most generous with his money and found a life style that suited them better than any I could provide for them. They have refused to have contact with me. My eldest said very clearly that I was to disassociate myself from her or the police would be involved. That was in 2003/2004. My second eldest has refused to respond to my emails since 2007. Although she has never written more than a paragraph once or twice or nothing before this. My grieving has been painful, the depression and anxiety bad. I have gone over every thought, every action, every situation, trying to see and own my part I did to divide up the family. I understand that I wasn’t the perfect mother, but none the less I was a good mother. I never had a lot of money, but they never suffered either. All their needs were met and a whole lot more. Looking back, I gave them too much to make up for the pain they experienced from their dad. I did this at my own expense, now regrettably. I am wondering why they can’t forgive me? In 2008, I decided to take a year off from trying to reach out to them. I needed time to take care of myself, to take care of my youngest daughter. I was surprised that I could dream again, smile, and make memories with my youngest daughter. I have a gentler, kinder relationship with her that I never had with my other two daughters. Life has been better, filled with optimism and hope. There is meaning in our lives, gratitude for all the little things that we have and we do together. I am greatful for this. I just found out that my eldest daughter, now 28, married in August 2009. My heart is so sad…I was not able to be there for her. Her mother-in-law fixed her makeup, her gown, her veil. My sadness is so great. I want to see her, to tell her how much she means to me…. My middle daughter (27) is very close to her dad now…she said on her blog that she has no mother…. yet I am here…. My youngest daughter (21) says she can’t have a relationship with them for many reasons, mostly to keep herself safe. I am thinking of emailing my oldest two daughters for Xmas letting them know the door is open for them to see me, for a coffee, to talk, to say hello….
the pain of their physical and emotional abuse stays with me, I forgive them, yet it is warning me to go cautiously, be careful, go slow….. this is a difficult decision for me….Has anyone else been in this situation or a similar situation?? I would really like to hear your story, how it went for you, what you did, and what maybe you would have done differently. Thanks for reading my story.
Cathy, I am so sorry for what you have been through with your children. I know it hurts horribly and working your way through it and still trying to have some kind of life is a huge challenge. I will definitely look for Walking on Eggshells. My son called me this evening and told me his sister called him and accused him of all kinds of things he hasnt done. My son is a problem too, and sometimes it seems like they tag team me, both of them getting at me from different angles. But this evening he said he was so sick of her behavior. I dont understand any of this, how kids raised in loving homes by parents who tried to fairly discipline, love and nurture end up with kids so selfish. of course my son also asked me during the conversation (he never calls unless he wants something ) to buy Christmas gifts for his girlfriends son (they live together). They both work and I have been unemployed for 8 months, yet they cant scrape enough together to buy the child a few gifts. It doesnt seem to dawn on them that I have no income. I will buy the little boy a few gifts, as i was going to anyway. Frankly I have trouble even focusing on my own situation (trying to get a job…I live with my brother) as I spend all my energy worrying about them. Every day I turn them over to God as best as I can and am attempting to find peace. I am better, I think…perhaps I have just accepted what is. I still pray for a miracle. God bless you in your journey.
JillB,
I have a daughter that estranged herself 4 1/2 years ago. She also estranged every single person in our family, had rages, etc. It took about 2 1/2 years to come to the acceptance stage after going through the other stages of loss. A book that helped me a lot was “Walking on Eggshells” by Paul Mason and Randi Kreger. It describes my daughter almost perfectly and is about Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD for short). Even if your child does not have BPD, it could give you strategies for dealing with her. I had a previous post or two on this blog in August this year, I think.
I know of a growing number of people who have been estanged by their child (children): my brother did it also to our entire family for over 25 years until my mother was dying of cancer; 2 friends have daughters who estranged themselves for decades so far; my husband knows someone at work whose 2 sons are estranged from him, and of course my own daughter.
I now fear that my son may go that route, at least by making it impossible to be around him. We recently did something that he did not like (sold an item out of necessity that he wanted), and he decided to use that as an opportunity to tell us everything he didn’t like about us – quite a list. He even insulted me by saying I only do my charity work ‘for the glory’. (I sew quietly by myself in my sewing room and just drop items off at the intended places.) He insulted his father plenty too. He’s 32, married 10 years with our only 3 grandchildren. The things he said are totally untrue in actuality and just his opinion, but he can’t see it any other way. He said pretty ugly things, and even used his religion and cherry-picked Bible quotes to back up his position, all the while professing his love and saying he is trying to ‘save us from ourselves’ (I suppose he meant religiously as well as literally). We have different but still Christian beliefs. We told him we wouldn’t put up with that disrespect, would not let him visit us (from another state) for Christmas in light of the current situation, so he says we are ‘destroying our family’ and that he stands by everything he said. We told him that like most people, it’s ok to think what you want about someone but you don’t have to say it. We would have been happy to have discussed the sale of the item but he just wouldn’t stop there. He also had said from the beginning of this situation that he knew this would probably change our realationship. He was always a difficult child but it seemed the military and his marriage had calmed him down some; however, I’ve always had to ‘walk on eggshells’ with him. Right now, the words that describe him, in our opinion, are arrogant, holier-than-thou, immature, and almost certainly greedy.
To be honest, between him and his sister, my husband and I have had about all we can take of them both. We will always love them, but liking them is another story. We’ve been through the grieving process with our daughter and it about killed my spirit, but I got through it. It seems I will have to go through it again; maybe it will go more quickly this time since I know I can survive and even have some fun once in awhile. We’ve learned how to live our lives without her, but now there are young grandchildren involved (and the whole family is very religious of course). We’ve entered semi-retirement and just want – and deserve – peace and calm in our lives. We will try to maintain a relationship with our grandchildren, and I can and will forgive my son for what he said (not there yet though), but we just don’t want to be around him knowing what he thinks.
Thanks Irene
I’ve ordered the Baker book; it looks good.
I would love to meet with my daughter’s therapist. But I don’t know who she is.
Kathi…I too have “begged” my kids to remain in my life….always being there for them in a crisis, calling and calling and CALLING, instantly forgiving (not say NOT forgive, but sometimes there are consequences to some behaviors and you can forgive while setting limits…like i told my daughter in an email “i love you. however if you ever hit me again you will be arrested”……I will not apologize for things i have not done, or make dozens of phone calls (rarely answered) to try and stay connected. a relationship takes TWO…and it has been only ME trying to keep it together. I am hurting during these holidays but sense some peace too….I will acknowledge the hurt as nothing takes away the pain of a child who totally rejects you…but in the storm there is peace as I realize God has a plan in all of this.
Kathi,
I did not believe that I could ever arrive at this place but I am here after three years of estrangement. It has been a year and a half since I have spoken to our daughter.
I am at peace. In fact I am not sure how I arrived here. We went to a counselor a month ago and met three times. We were told not to contact our daughter any more. I needed to hear this.
My husband and I have the tree up, the house is decorated and we are enjoying each other and family who are loving and kind. I realize that begging our daughter to be in our life was so demeaning!! Never again.
I am praying for you and everyone on this blog. I am praying for continuation of peace in our lives.